Kemper Double Tracker Feature on Axe-FX III?

boltrecords Cooper Carter did the pitch block mimiq in the Petrucci rig so it's the same one. I need to have a look at that preset and see what the bocks output is set at. The one I saved some time ago had the output level at 5 so it really stands out when you engage it.
Yeah it does .... I use it in a lot of my presets ..., but I usually decrease the level to 3.0 dB YMMV ....
 
Lots of good attempts at the Mimiq sound out there, but since I run just about everything in stereo and have some pretty CPU intensive patches, I have a Microcosm feeding into a Mimiq sitting in the Out/In 3 loop on my Axe. For the presets that I'm on 95% of the time, the loop is always engaged, Mimiq always on- on my old board, I literally had it out of the way on the lower level. Sounds great, and doesn't chew up extra CPU.
Would you mind doing a screen grab of the patch in Axe-Edit? I’m thinking of doing the same and would love to see how you’ve set yours up!

Are you using panned cabs? Single amp?
 
Lots of good attempts at the Mimiq sound out there, but since I run just about everything in stereo and have some pretty CPU intensive patches, I have a Microcosm feeding into a Mimiq sitting in the Out/In 3 loop on my Axe. For the presets that I'm on 95% of the time, the loop is always engaged, Mimiq always on- on my old board, I literally had it out of the way on the lower level. Sounds great, and doesn't chew up extra CPU.
Do you know if the mimiq pedal is the same as the doubler on the G System please ?
 
Would you mind doing a screen grab of the patch in Axe-Edit? I’m thinking of doing the same and would love to see how you’ve set yours up!

Are you using panned cabs? Single amp?
Will do when I get the chance! It's pretty straightforward though- I have patches that are both single and double amps. In a single amp patch, I pan the cabs, and run all the stereo effects after, and I put in an Out3->In3 in the chain, which you need to make sure is set up in the I/O menu (iirc) for stereo in and out. Then the Microcosm and Mimiq get hooked up in stereo to the effect loop in the back of the Axe. I run the effects loop in serial. Sounds really large and wide.
Do you know if the mimiq pedal is the same as the doubler on the G System please ?
I'm sorry, I'm afraid I've never used the G System. I think the Mimiq is somewhat proprietary, but I'm not an expert in such things.
 
My preferred way to do it is to not change the delay times at all. Instead, have a few delays, each with a fixed unique time, and switch to using a different delay at note onset. That way, no delay time changes are needed. It's quite effective, but you still need good attack detection to make it work. There's no free lunch :).
Yes, that's what I meant but wasn't precisely saying. I did it on the Axe-Fx by using a sequencer with pseudo random values to select between four different delay lines using a mixer and four unique modifier curves. Envelope steps the sequencer.
 
Yes, that's what I meant but wasn't precisely saying. I did it on the Axe-Fx by using a sequencer with pseudo random values to select between four different delay lines using a mixer and four unique modifier curves. Envelope steps the sequencer.
Yes, that's the way to do it. That's how the Mimiq and Kemper doubler work, and it's a more convincing emulation of double tracking than a technique that relies on pitch modulation or a chorus. The problem is the modifier curves. It's not easy to get that to work perfectly. Cliff could solve that problem in a new kind of block (or a new enhancer block mode) :).

I posted a preset that demonstrates the technique of switching between delays:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ker-feature-on-axe-fx-iii.179347/post-2188154

And I posted some comments on this technique here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ker-feature-on-axe-fx-iii.179347/post-2187994
 
Curious if anyone is also using an enhancer block in conjunction with the pitch (mimiq) block? redundant? I know there are no 'rules' but wondering if the extra CPU load, if its really accomplishing more.
 
I got a Mimiq pedal for Christmas and it's brilliant. It's like the doubler I had on the G System but in a pedal format. I was hoping the enhancer would work the same as the doubler and have been waiting for this type of doubler since my FX8 days when I ran two Mark 5s in stereo. The Mimiq is quite inexpensive and Im not at all bothered it could be way down the list of priorities for FAS but it also occurred to me that as well as having separate input and output blocks, the fx loop (I/O 3 and 4) could be combined into existing blocks to save some space on the grid.

So you could go out from any block and in from any other by having very limited Input 3/4 and Output 3/4 functions (I.e. just level) incorporated into each existing block. You then save 2 spaces on the grid for other effects / routings.

Just a thought.

Would be nice to have the Mimiq as a block though ;)
 
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In a single amp patch, I pan the cabs, and run all the stereo effects after, and I put in an Out3->In3 in the chain, which you need to make sure is set up in the I/O menu (iirc) for stereo in and out. Then the Microcosm and Mimiq get hooked up in stereo to the effect loop in the back of the Axe. I run the effects loop in serial. Sounds really large and wide.
Just to clarify, are you running the I/O blocks last in your signal chain? Live I already run two amps stereo with the enhancer block at the end, but it's clearly not as wide as the Mimiq or real double tracking. I'm considering adding the Mimiq to my AX3 rack for this. Monitoring double tracked guitars is such a pleasure with headphones in the studio and I've been trying to duplicate this live for awhile now.
 
Just to clarify, are you running the I/O blocks last in your signal chain? Live I already run two amps stereo with the enhancer block at the end, but it's clearly not as wide as the Mimiq or real double tracking. I'm considering adding the Mimiq to my AX3 rack for this. Monitoring double tracked guitars is such a pleasure with headphones in the studio and I've been trying to duplicate this live for awhile now.
It would work fine at the end, although I have my main patches set up with the Mimiq I/O right after the cab block, so that the width created by the Mimiq carries through to the stereo effects (reverb, delay, etc). Ken Andrews from Failure has a video where he talks about his use of the Mimiq in the Axe Fx loop, and he sets his up between the amp and the cab (which is panned iirc). Here's the video.
 
So after reading this thread I ordered a Mimiq in the mail for <$100. I prefer the "1 dub" setting. This is really nice.

It's similar to the Enhancer block's "Modern" mode on higher settings. The difference between the Enhancer and the Mimiq is moderate but noticeable when using stereo amps and cabs, but when using a mono amp+cab the Mimiq is much better than the Enhancer block in any mode. I heard the YouTube demos but I had to play through it in my own rig to believe it. It really sounds like double tracking. On my stereo amps presets I'm having even better results running the Out4 > In4 blocks before my stereo amps so the "playing differences" actually hit the two amps differently too. For my mono amp+cab presets the Out4 > In4 blocks go after the cab. Looking forward to using this in my IEMs live.

Let's get a doubler effect built into the Enhancer block!


IMG_2200.jpg
 
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So after reading this thread I ordered a Mimiq in the mail for <$100. I prefer the "2 dubs" setting. This is really nice.

It's similar to the Enhancer block's "Modern" mode on higher settings. The difference between the Enhancer and the Mimiq is moderate but noticeable when using stereo amps and cabs, but when using a mono amp+cab the Mimiq is much better than the Enhancer block in any mode. I heard the YouTube demos but I had to play through it in my own rig to believe it. It really sounds like double tracking. On my stereo amps presets I'm having even better results running the Out4 > In4 blocks before my stereo amps so the "playing differences" actually hit the two amps differently too. For my mono amp+cab presets the Out4 > In4 blocks go after the cab. Looking forward to using this in my IEMs live.

Let's get a doubler effect built into the Enhancer block!


View attachment 93713
Good, I'm glad it's working out for you! I use the 2 dubs setting as well, and have my Mimiq permanently mounted under my board as well. It's always on.
Yea, the Mimiq is actually really good at what it does. Our sound guy at church immediately noticed the difference (even though I hadn't mentioned the change), and he was really excited about it.
And you're right- the enhancer isn't quite the same as the Mimiq. Similar, but the mimiq creates a crazy amount of space with a stereo signal without any weird phasing. It's like an "embiggener". (Apologies to Matt Groenig)
 
Apologies if this is not the right place, but how exactly are you guys setting up the ins and outs? I've got a stereo patch with one amp and 2 cabs (panned hard L and R) and when I set OUT4 after the cab, then IN4 after that, it just sounds metallic and phasey. The output and input are set to stereo.
 
Good, I'm glad it's working out for you! I use the 2 dubs setting as well, and have my Mimiq permanently mounted under my board as well. It's always on.
Yea, the Mimiq is actually really good at what it does. Our sound guy at church immediately noticed the difference (even though I hadn't mentioned the change), and he was really excited about it.
And you're right- the enhancer isn't quite the same as the Mimiq. Similar, but the mimiq creates a crazy amount of space with a stereo signal without any weird phasing. It's like an "embiggener". (Apologies to Matt Groenig)
Yeah it's great. I actually misspoke, I'm using the 1 Dub setting for the standard double tracking sound. I decided to permanently mount it in my rack so I moved my GLXD14R and Furman to the bottom so I could velcro the pedal in the back.

IMG_2206.jpg

I also discovered that the mono/L output is just the identical dry input, so instead of running my left dry through the pedal, I just connected Out4L to the L input of the pedal, and the pedal's output R jack into Input 4R (set to "Right Only" in Axe-Edit's setup menu).

Untitled.jpg

So with this setup my left amp is my original and my right amp is the "double tracked" amp. If one of the patch cables or the pedal itself fails, I only lose the right amp, and all I have to do to get it back is bypass the In 4 block.

I couldn't hear a difference between this setup and running both left and right through the pedal so I figured why not just keep the left channel inside the AX3, less stuff to fail.
 
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I have mine set up with the inputs of the Mimiq connected to OUTPUT 3 L&R and the outputs of the Mimiq connected to INPUT 3 L&R.

I use one amp and cab block but put the Mimiq on the backend where the enhancer block used to go right at the end if the chain. All my effects after the amp block (including the cab block) are set to stereo (or I use the dual delay / multi delay etc so I have left and right channels)

I use 1 dub, effect and dry on full and the tightness set to about 11 o'clock.
 

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Yeah it's great. I decided to permanently mount it in my rack so I moved my GLXD14R and Furman to the bottom so I could velcro the pedal in the back.

View attachment 93746

I also discovered that the mono/L output is just the identical dry input, so instead of running my left dry through the pedal, I just connected Out4L to the L input of the pedal, and the pedal's output R jack into Input 4R (set to "Right Only" in Axe-Edit's setup menu).

View attachment 93747

So with this setup my left amp is my original and my right amp is the "double tracked" amp. If one of the patch cables or the pedal itself fails, I only lose the right amp, and all I have to do to get it back is bypass the In 4 block.

I couldn't hear a difference between this setup and running both left and right through the pedal so I figured why not just keep the left channel inside the AX3, less stuff to fail.
similar here - running Mimiq pedal mono in Left side of loop only for best results (right side going straight thru) (1 voice / 90% wet / 0% dry / 50% Tightness). Running just before or after hard L/R panned cab blocks is good - running just before hard panned L/R panned amp blocks sounds best imo. In hind sight, the Mimiq mini is best value at 1/2 the price to do the same as above with the stereo version - the multiple voices start to sound a bit garbled at times to my ear - one voice @ 100% wet before a second hard panned amp + delayed slightly + randomly in Mimiq seems to fit the definition of a real time double tracking process - wish it had a bit more "swing" sometimes, but really good.
 
Apologies if this is not the right place, but how exactly are you guys setting up the ins and outs? I've got a stereo patch with one amp and 2 cabs (panned hard L and R) and when I set OUT4 after the cab, then IN4 after that, it just sounds metallic and phasey. The output and input are set to stereo.
Hm. Are you by any chance setting up the OUT4 and IN4 in parallel to an unaffected signal path? There is a tiny bit of latency with the AD/DA (is that what they call the digital/analog conversion chips?) that can cause comb filtering that would give you that metallic phasey sound if you're running any device passing dry signal through it (like the Mimiq) in the loop in parallel. Not sure if that's what's going on, but it could be a possibility. I remember running into this experimenting with drive pedals in the fx loops, when I set them up in parallel.


Yeah it's great. I actually misspoke, I'm using the 1 Dub setting for the standard double tracking sound. I decided to permanently mount it in my rack so I moved my GLXD14R and Furman to the bottom so I could velcro the pedal in the back.

View attachment 93746

I also discovered that the mono/L output is just the identical dry input, so instead of running my left dry through the pedal, I just connected Out4L to the L input of the pedal, and the pedal's output R jack into Input 4R (set to "Right Only" in Axe-Edit's setup menu).

View attachment 93747

So with this setup my left amp is my original and my right amp is the "double tracked" amp. If one of the patch cables or the pedal itself fails, I only lose the right amp, and all I have to do to get it back is bypass the In 4 block.

I couldn't hear a difference between this setup and running both left and right through the pedal so I figured why not just keep the left channel inside the AX3, less stuff to fail.
Oh, I'm dumb. I have my switch set to 1 as well- so that you get two outputs on the pedal. The 2 setting gives you a w/d/w sort of effect, iirc, which made it seem like the left hand side was louder. FWIW, running just one side of the pedal in a loop like you're doing is probably throwing a little additional Haas effect in there as well, because of the latency of the loop- the loop throws just a tiny bit of latency in the AD/DA conversion, so if you find yourself dealing with some mystery phaseyness at some point, running both amps through the pedal in serial would solve it, but hey, if it sounds good, it is good!
 
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