Kemper 2.7.0 VS Axe Fx II XL 16.02

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UnsungHeroGuitars said:
Oof! Low blow!
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Don't get me wrong, I love the epiphone line of guitars. I own a Epi-Korina V...There is just something about the US head stock that drives me batty. Which is why I chose a MIJ Orville :)
 
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I received the Kemper rack on Saturday. While lifting it out of the box I noticed it is extremely light; to the point it made me wonder if there was anything inside of it. Not that being light is a bad thing. Then I noticed that one of the red ground lift knobs on the back is broken off from it's plastic shaft. I am shipping it back tommorow. I must say; not the greatest first impression.
 
I know the discussion between Kemper and AXE FX II is really annoying but I would also be really interested in an unbiased detailed comparison between these two Units - just in Terms of the preampsection, I mean everybody knows that the FX Section and the tweakability of the AXE FX is far superior and no kemperuser would doubt that. And the owner always finds his toy the best, or people who are unable to read Manuals and are unable to program sounds will always find the easier unit the better sounding unit - so all of this seems like a religious war without scientific value...Then I hear a lot of comparisons by metalheads - which is fine but I think a really good and interesting comparison btw these both units would be just taking a look (or ear) at the fact how realistic and detailed is the sound of clean- and crunchsounds ( attack,transients, dynamic). I had to compare the AXE FX 1 with the Kemper for a magazine and couldn´t hear that much difference in terms of sound quality but the kemper had a bigger latency and the booting time was really too long. Anyway - i would be really interested in scientific opinions because i always have to fight through these conversations with different users and I´m running out of arguments:)
 
Heinzi said:
I know the discussion between Kemper and AXE FX II is really annoying but I would also be really interested in an unbiased detailed comparison between these two Units - just in Terms of the preampsection, I mean everybody knows that the FX Section and the tweakability of the AXE FX is far superior and no kemperuser would doubt that. And the owner always finds his toy the best, or people who are unable to read Manuals and are unable to program sounds will always find the easier unit the better sounding unit - so all of this seems like a religious war without scientific value...Then I hear a lot of comparisons by metalheads - which is fine but I think a really good and interesting comparison btw these both units would be just taking a look (or ear) at the fact how realistic and detailed is the sound of clean- and crunchsounds ( attack,transients, dynamic). I had to compare the AXE FX 1 with the Kemper for a magazine and couldn´t hear that much difference in terms of sound quality but the kemper had a bigger latency and the booting time was really too long. Anyway - i would be really interested in scientific opinions because i always have to fight through these conversations with different users and I´m running out of arguments:)
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It's definitely something you need to try yourself. I'm biased of course since I have tried them both and made my decision. I'll try and give a balanced review anyways. You can get convincing sounds with both that pass as real tube amps. So which ever you find easier to use and getting you a tone you like will be better for you. IMO it's really hard to say what Kemper's strenght is over Axe-Fx. Maybe it's the capability of measuring the level of gain which is a feature that Axe-Fx doesn't have. Still it wasn't very accurate with a Mesa Roadster or an Orange Rockerverb when I made some profiles with it. I've heard Kemper guys say that it's easier to use but I would say that it's not. To me it looks like a pilots booth with all those knobs. Sure the Axe-Fx is more complex but it's the only way you can control everything. Some people don't seem to realize that they don't have to tweak every knob... I don't even touch the amp EQ most of the time. As far as Kemper's profiling goes it wasn't too accurate either which was a huge let down. I was actually doing match EQ before the Kemper was out and before the Axe-Fx had tone matching so my expectations were high. My personal preference now is to use neither. The amp models in the Axe-Fx are now so ridiculously close that I don't care anymore. I won't even start mentioning everything I consider to be Axe-Fx's strengths but overall quality of all effects and... personally I think also the amp modeling and feel. Sure the Axe-Fx is more expensive. But I believe it's about you get what you pay for. Line6 HD < Kemper < Axe-Fx both in price and quality if you ask me.

If I come across as a Kemper hater I assure you it's nothing like that. You'll probably tell me to try a newer firmware or something but when I had the Kemper I did various tests with it and I always had problems with 125hz frequency when doing profiles. Yes I know that there's a refine process. But still 125hz which is usually the guitar low end was sometimes almost 6dBs off. Also with a Kemper what happens when you palm mute is not the same thing what happens on the real amp. That's became my fastest test to see if a profile was successful.

Still for people who aren't geeks like me the Kemper is a profiler that does capture the tone of real life amps somewhat accurately.
 
Thanx Clark, sounds reasonable -in germany we have a Studio Guitarplayer called Peter Weihe (something like the german GuitarGuru who has all the original amps perfectly miked with every possible box and preamp) and he was asked about his opinionin two seperate Tests - unfortunately in german

Peter Weihe zur Praxis mit dem Kemper Profiling Amp

Test: Fractal Audio Axe-Fx II Mk 2

I think he also prefered the AXE FX II but still thinks both units lack the "Air you hear between speaker and microphone" but he propably couldn´t tell the difference with some amp models- he thinks the problem could be the assertiveness of sounds in the mixing place..he thinks real amps are easier to handle for the engineer if i get him right. It´s hard to judge as a guitarplayer....I would play anytime with both units but i would always choosethe AXE FX
 
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Heinzi said:
Thanx Clark, sounds reasonable -in germany we have a Studio Guitarplayer called Peter Weihe (something like the german GuitarGuru who has all the original amps perfectly miked with every possible box and preamp) and he was asked about his opinionin two seperate Tests - unfortunately in german

Peter Weihe zur Praxis mit dem Kemper Profiling Amp

Test: Fractal Audio Axe-Fx II Mk 2

I think he also prefered the AXE FX II but still thinks both units lack the "Air you hear between speaker and microphone" but he propably couldn´t tell the difference with some amp models- he thinks the problem could be the assertiveness of sounds in the mixing place..he thinks real amps are easier to handle for the engineer if i get him right. It´s hard to judge as a guitarplayer....I would play anytime with both units but i would always choosethe AXE FX
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Luckily I also speak German. ;) But sure there is a small truth to that air thing. I would say that it's what everything sounds like when you stop playing or palm mute etc. You can't hear a room when there is no room. But the only way you'll hear this is when doing something that's not important as far as music is concerned. :)
 
kisslorand said:
Uhmmmm... What? I mean... huh?

我可以讀的話，但我不明白這句話
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Ha! Well... You don't really hear that properly unless there's a high gain guitar track playing alone and how often does that happen? :) I love guitar breaks and intros though!
 
Heinzi said:
I think he also prefered the AXE FX II but still thinks both units lack the "Air you hear between speaker and microphone" but he propably couldn´t tell the difference with some amp models- he thinks the problem could be the assertiveness of sounds in the mixing place..he thinks real amps are easier to handle for the engineer if i get him right.
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My ears are good enough to hear the difference in a bad or good guitar cable even in the mix or live band, and i know well what Clark say about the lack in 125hz or about the palm muting, 'coz both are pillars of a amp/guitar tone.
I can even understand the "air between speaker and mic" thing... but... i think this is a thing that you can hear just when you are in a perfect sounding room testing mics and amps all alone. No mix, no band!
When you are digital modeling and amp... a cab... a mic... you need to get a "naked sound" that nails the "naked sound" of that amp, cab or mic. That said, if you want to emulate all the environment, you must use all the spice that the crazy mind of Cliff stuffed into the box: microdelays, early reflections, motor drive, fine eq e timing of the room reverb... etc... not for fx pourpose... but just for mimic the environment. And this is the real strenght of Axe: you get perfect models, you get all the fxs, and you get all the spices to perfect emulate the environment.
So... i don't understand the line about how is easier for an engineer to handle a real amp... unless the engineer don't know nothing about manage all the suff inside the Axe.
 
As far as I know the Test I mentioned above was just some sort of steppin through Presets and a minimum of tweaking but always a comparison between the real amps and trying to emulate these sounds with the axe fx- made in August 2013 (with the FW ??? and no ultra res). The criticpoints were to his opinion: by trying to emulate a 73 Marshall the axe fx couln´t handle the change of guitars as good as the original amp, another point was by tring to emulate the Vox or other Marshall to Ptere Weihe it sounded to much like a "compressor plug in" and the artificial compression was too obvious (seems like they were going primarily for 60s or 70s Sound and he doesn´t criticise the AXE FX in toto but certain amp emulations).
Again: I´m not stating my opinion (I had the Axe Fx 1 and have the AXE Fx II XL and love them) - I just refer to the Test in Xound.com and the same Test was done with the Kemper 6 months before the AXE FX and he had a lot of criticism there too.
Anyway - I was just curious about different opinions about a Kemper an AXE FX - comparison solely regarding the preampsection and I thought maybe someone did a thorough test.

Thanks for the opinions!




WELCOME TO AUTHENTIC GUITAR HAIKO HEINZ
 
Heinzi said:
I had to compare the AXE FX 1 with the Kemper for a magazine
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Me too ... 10 letters written in a deep comparision. Both machines are excellent for what they do, IMHO. It`s more about what concept and User interface and preferences will fullfill more the need of potential users, IMHO. But ...

Clark Kent said:
I always had problems with 125hz frequency when doing profiles. Yes I know that there's a refine process. But still 125hz which is usually the guitar low end was sometimes almost 6dBs off.
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... this i also experienced. And something "static" in the High End. Nevertheless: For "daily business" theses critique points are nit-picking small. I won`t make a decision between both machines because of that issue(s), more about what i written above.
 
FractalAudio said:
I had to look this up. Never heard of it before. It's funny because I built something very similar to that back in the late 80's out of plexiglass. I would put it in front of my cab to prevent beaming to the audience.
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Re Hoovi Deflex; That's a really interesting product actually. Not sure how well it works but it sure looks like the Jetsons.
 
Back to the topic

Sorry I have a different view

I started long time ago on a Standard.At that time Fractal was not ( maybe at all) known so well.I was at Harmony Central Forum and looked for a modeller that didnt suck as much as the Pod's did at that time.So one post said best seems to be Fractal Axe,but was hard to find anything,what it would do or not

to cut a long story short

More publicity is sure better and even a negative review gives you some hints where to go

my 2 cents

Roland

PS:It was Ketil Starnds Evolution of Rock Guitar what sold me,and the help by him tweaking later on ( a Standard was lightyears away where we are today.Only tweaking was by ears )
 
jesussaddle said:
Re Hoovi Deflex; That's a really interesting product actually. Not sure how well it works but it sure looks like the Jetsons.
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I use the Deeflexx in my amp workshop! I can work at my bench on a customers amp, while he play it (and I tweak it in realtime on the running amp) and have the same sweet spot sound experience as my customer, even if stand on a complete different spot in the room! Actually it not just kills the beam, it makes the sweet spot hearable in the whole room around the speaker! This is just by far the best product made to use with guitar amplifiers, since there were guitar amplifiers around! Never ever doing stuff without a Deeflexx! I was introduced to it from a friend and instantly bought one afterwards! :)

Works also great with the Matrix Q12a and the AF2!!!

Get your hands on one, listen for yourself.....

Cheers
Paco
 
Deeflex: owned it too.

They do work as advertised.

Band members were happy with it.
But a pain to use live, because they're not very portable and you have to use one for each speaker IIRC.

PacoCasanovas said:
I use the Deeflexx in my amp workshop! I can work at my bench on a customers amp, while he play it (and I tweak it in realtime on the running amp) and have the same sweet spot sound experience as my customer, even if stand on a complete different spot in the room! Actually it not just kills the beam, it makes the sweet spot hearable in the whole room around the speaker! This is just by far the best product made to use with guitar amplifiers, since there were guitar amplifiers around! Never ever doing stuff without a Deeflexx! I was introduced to it from a friend and instantly bought one afterwards! :)

Works also great with the Matrix Q12a and the AF2!!!

Get your hands on one, listen for yourself.....

Cheers
Paco
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