Just installed Celestion F12-X200 into my Genz Benz GFlex 2x12 and ...

Tremonti

Tremonti

Fractal Fanatic
Well I do not have amp at home to try yet. But I will report back soon with full review! I took out EVM 12L Classics that were 200 watts and installed the Celestion F12-X200 which is also a 200 watter but is full range for cab IR's and modelers. Looks totally like a regular guitar speaker though. Painted my cab too. Anyways I will report back. Thanks!
 

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Tremonti said:
Well I do not have amp at home to try yet. But I will report back soon with full review! I took out EVM 12L Classics that were 200 watts and installed the Celestion F12-X200 which is also a 200 watter but is full range for cab IR's and modelers. Looks totally like a regular guitar speaker though. Painted my cab too. Anyways I will report back. Thanks!
Click to expand...


I am curious about the result of the test.
I also bought two Celestion F12-X200s.
 
Well I went out to studio with my 7 year old, and got to play it. Simply amazing......Full, Robust, Stereo. Ran Matrix Gt1600FX at about 75%. Exactly what I think I want. I need more time with it and also the speakers need to break in. But this cabinet being oversized and ported makes this speaker growl in a good way! Nice oomph. I will adjust my patches a tad, but I could have easily gigged without tweaking a thing.
 
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I have an identical cabinet.

However, I only have a single F12 X200.

Curious that you say it sounds great right off the bat.

I put my F12 into a Mesa Theile Cabinet using a Matrix Gt800 and it sounds awful!!!

Maybe I need to run a pair in stereo, as you have, for them to work correctly?

I have tried everything in the world to get this speaker to perform and it still sounds terrible.

Think I might purchase a second F12 and put them in the Genz and see what happenz!!
 
I don't think getting a second one will help you. I have four of them all in different 1x12 cabinets that I use in different places. I did not have a difficult time getting a good usable sound out of any of them. I tweak my global EQ a little depending on the room or tone that I am working with - but never too much. Usually pull 250hz down one db or so if it sounds to murky or bump 4kz up one db to push the guitar forward a little - but that's about it.
 
Hi Tremonti,
Looks great! Curious about the porting. That seems like a lot of porting for a couple of 12s - was that intentional?
Thanks
Pauly

Tremonti said:
Well I went out to studio with my 7 year old, and got to play it. Simply amazing......Full, Robust, Stereo. Ran Matrix Gt1600FX at about 75%. Exactly what I think I want. I need more time with it and also the speakers need to break in. But this cabinet being oversized and ported makes this speaker growl in a good way! Nice oomph. I will adjust my patches a tad, but I could have easily gigged without tweaking a thing.
Click to expand...
 
pauly said:
Hi Tremonti,
Looks great! Curious about the porting. That seems like a lot of porting for a couple of 12s - was that intentional?
Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...
I mean I did not design the cab. Just what I had. What would having too much port do to the sound? How would you plug a couple?
 
I use a Matrix GT1000FX for the two 1x12 Forte style 1x12 cabinets. The other two speakers are in a pair of 1x12 Matrix Q12a cabinets that use the Matrix GM50 power module. I get what I need our of all the setups with modest tweaks to the global EQ.

I wonder if you are over driving the input into your amp and thus into the speaker. SS clipping into a tweeter can sound awful.
 
neale dunham said:
I have an identical cabinet.

However, I only have a single F12 X200.

Curious that you say it sounds great right off the bat.

I put my F12 into a Mesa Theile Cabinet using a Matrix Gt800 and it sounds awful!!!

Maybe I need to run a pair in stereo, as you have, for them to work correctly?

I have tried everything in the world to get this speaker to perform and it still sounds terrible.

Think I might purchase a second F12 and put them in the Genz and see what happenz!!
Click to expand...
I tried one in a Theile and it wasn't good. It is now in a passive Xitone wedge and that's great.
 
It was unfocused and bass heavy . The xitone put some mids back in tightened up the bass and balanced the treble.
 
Andy Eagle said:
It was unfocused and bass heavy . The xitone put some mids back in tightened up the bass and balanced the treble.
Click to expand...
I had the same result, initially comparing against my Xitone with the Eminance Coaxial speakers (2x12). I would just switch between speakers. Celestion seemed very stiff, new. So, I just got done taking the Celestion and breaking it in for 48 hours in an impromtu 'isoltion' cab in the basement. Still haven't had time to retest/compare after. I could tell it was very stiff, new.
 
cybermgk said:
I had the same result, initially comparing against my Xitone with the Eminance Coaxial speakers (2x12). I would just switch between speakers. Celestion seemed very stiff, new. So, I just got done taking the Celestion and breaking it in for 48 hours in an impromtu 'isoltion' cab in the basement. Still haven't had time to retest/compare after. I could tell it was very stiff, new.
Click to expand...
Keep us posted of results after break-in
 
Hi again Tremonti,

Porting to suit the speakers/box will give it a more accurate bass response - often described as a 'Tighter' bass with less resonances and a 'smoother' bass.

There are defined numbers that work well called 'Theil Small' parameters derived by a couple of smart Aussies (didn't you know we are smart? Just ask....we'll tell you! :)) for calculations of the most appropriate cabinet porting see here for some background;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiel...s are named,line of analysis for loudspeakers.

So your speakers Theile Small parameters are here; https://celestion.com/files/brochures/Guitar_Speaker_Catalogue.pdf
F12-X200 Small Signal Parameter

D ................................................ 0.26m/10.24in
Fs ............................................................... 69.8Hz
Mms............................................50.19g/1.77oz
Qms .......................................................... 12.007
Qes...............................................................0.831
Qts................................................................0.777
Re .................................................................5.91Ω
Vas............................................47.3l/16.7 cu. ft.
Bl.............................................................12.52Tm
Cms................................................. 0.103mm/N
Rms......................................................1.834kg/s

..and Using the above specs, along with your cabinet's internal volume, use one of the many available calculators (such as this one; https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/SpeakerBoxEnclosure/) to calculate the best porting for your box.

I haven't had time to review the available calculators, but keep in mind you're calculating for 2 speakers in the one box.

Anyway - from there, you can perhaps change the porting configuration to remove any strange bottom end behaviour in that box (If there is any!) - Alternatively, if it sounds fantastic, leave it for now! Might be a fun project for a rainy day.

Thanks
Pauly


Tremonti said:
I mean I did not design the cab. Just what I had. What would having too much port do to the sound? How would you plug a couple?
Click to expand...
 
Brett336 said:
I use a Matrix GT1000FX for the two 1x12 Forte style 1x12 cabinets. The other two speakers are in a pair of 1x12 Matrix Q12a cabinets that use the Matrix GM50 power module. I get what I need our of all the setups with modest tweaks to the global EQ.

I wonder if you are over driving the input into your amp and thus into the speaker. SS clipping into a tweeter can sound awful.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly what it does sound like.

I have tried various settings within the Axe fx but nothing seems to cure the anaemic sound of the F12 compared to a conventional Celestion for example.

Some Axe Ir's sound marginally better than others, but ultimately, the F12 to my ears doesn't stand up to a conventional guitar speaker when comparing like for like.

Be interested to hear from guys that think they can get the F12-X200 to sound as good as a Celestion Heritage G12 m for example?

In my extensive testing of this speaker, the best I can get, is a mix between FRFR and Conventional sounding speaker, which kinda lacks in both areas for me.

Despite Celestions' claims that the speaker is neutral enough to adopt almost any speaker type IR that you could want to overlay.
I find that a wild stretch of the imagination.

None of the IR's within the axe fx 3, that I know well, sound anywhere as good as their real world counterparts.
If anyone knows where I might be going wrong here, please help. I am all ears as this is driving me nuts.

Over the last year, I have persevered with this speaker and spent countless hours tweaking and always falling short of a conventional guitar speaker sound.

I know my ears are probably programmed to recognise this sound. However, my brain will instantly alert me if something sounds better. In my experience of the F12 it always sounds inferior to a regular speaker.

Then I hear that guys on here, are getting good results with it. I must be going wrong somewhere, but I just cannot find where??
 
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