Just got Axe-Fx 3...never been more frustrated

I’m with the op about the confusion. The way the USB io is mapped is counter intuitive to studio folks.

If you want to stay with usb only, the best you’ll be able to do (currently) is have 2 stereo streams through the axefx, not 4!

As others have mentioned, the manual is unfortunately correct and therefore, in my opinion the io is limited. Most users are probably coming from a II and probably analog so in that regard it is a huge step up. For those used to modern audio interfaces, it’s kind of retro.

Streams are not freely assignable to in’s and outs. I too was dismayed at first. I’m crossing my fingers that the spdif and aes io can be freely assignable in the future (so that we don’t need a computer to handle 2 separate stereo digital streams) and that the usb io will be freely assignable.
 
I’m crossing my fingers that the spdif and aes io can be freely assignable in the future (so that we don’t need a computer to handle 2 separate stereo digital streams) and that the usb io will be freely assignable.

It is my understanding that S/PDIF & AES protocol only allows one stereo signal to be passed through it. I doubt that is going to change....ever. There are units with digital multi channel connections available but they are usually....cough cough...expensive.

I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong on my understanding.
 
Axe-FX is a product made for guitar. Therefore, the OOTB presets are set up for a guitar. Most people don't play eight guitars at the same time. I honestly don't bother with any of the presets because: 1) I don't want someone else's tone, 2) my routes and configs are unlikely to be something FAS can guess on, 3) I'd prefer to learn how to set up things myself so when something isn't working right on stage, I know how to fix it. I think of the presets as more of a demo of what the unit is capable of, not that they should do exactly what my oddball setup wants. I moved them to the end of the library list as soon as I started the device up.

Page 19 of the manual (at least the version of it I have local) very clearly details the USB routing on a single page in under 20 sentences. If it doesn't do what you're expecting it to do wrt USB, I'd chalk that up to failing to do any research into a $2500 unit before buying it. I read the entire XL+ manual before I even purchased one.
 
It is my understanding that S/PDIF & AES protocol only allows one stereo signal to be passed through it. I doubt that is going to change....ever. There are units with digital multi channel connections available but they are usually....cough cough...expensive.

I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong on my understanding.

Yes it is typical to have spdif and aes share the same input/output but this has not been confirmed by fractal. Matt said he didn’t know. Cliff has not said yet as far as I know and there are wishes for this if it’s possible:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/digital-i-o-on-the-grid.137174/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/assignable-usb-computer-input-sources.137640/

Ps I use a motu 8d with 4 stereo streams streams total (2 aes, 2 spdif) simultaneously. It’s not the only one that offers this.
 
Axe-FX is a product made for guitar

Bass and “other instruments” according to the website :0). And really... does it matter? It’s a audio processor Swiss Army knife as far as I’m concerned. I digress. I know you were talking about the presets being geared towards guitar and that’s mostly true.

If it doesn't do what you're expecting it to do wrt USB, I'd chalk that up to failing to do any research into a $2500 unit before buying it. I read the entire XL+ manual before I even purchased one.

Good for you. But from a maybe more studio perspective when it says 8 in 8 out usb interface, you kind of expect that to also mean freely assignable not hard wired for a specific purpose. Sure, maybe reading the manual would help but I think the ops frustration could be noted... either change the verbiage in the marketing or *fingers crossed* support freely assignable io. Guitarists would also enjoy 4 stereo streams through the axe... they just may not realize it yet (jab).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m ok as is because I’ve been around since the ultra and the iii is definitely an improvement. At the same time, I recognize the confusion around io.
 
I think if anyone is an advanced enough user to either need 8 I/O that are freely assignable, and/or buying a $2500 guitar processor, they are also probably experienced enough to read the manual and review if a said product fits into their studio workflow.

That isn’t a dig at anyone mind you, simply a statement that for products at this level and market, stuff probably doesn’t need to be as explicitly spelled out, IMO
 
the USB section on the Axe3 product page describes exactly what's possible for I/O (right side). does it need to also say "Note: these are not freely assignable"?

View attachment 50819

Chris, the same page says:

“Ultimate Flexibility”
“8x8 USB with Superior Performance”
“The center of your music workstation”

in bold titles. That’s not really accurate and it’s also what I concentrated on initially.

It’s easy enough to gloss over the text in that table. As I said before, the manual is correct and it appears the web page says as much but coming from a more studio perspective, it is easy to misinterpret.

Anyway why berate someone about this? There was confusion. So what. Let’s just hope for improved assignability if it’s possible.
 
I think if anyone is an advanced enough user to either need 8 I/O that are freely assignable, and/or buying a $2500 guitar processor, they are also probably experienced enough to read the manual and review if a said product fits into their studio workflow.

That isn’t a dig at anyone mind you, simply a statement that for products at this level and market, stuff probably doesn’t need to be as explicitly spelled out, IMO

Going to have to agree here. (And still not a dig at anyone.)

Running complicated workflow's is in the 'nice to have' category...and the capability clearly exists, but maybe not in the way you exactly want to run things, but it's there. We have to remember that this was designed primarily as a guitar processor/amp.

Wish list is a good place to ask for things if you have very specific needs. We're lucky.

R
 
I would like to add that I find the manual to be one of the best I have ever read/used for a piece of gear.
 
I think it is a testament to Axe FX that we find people seeking to integrate this as a studio appliance rather than an instrument appliance.

With that said, I have to agree with those who have stated that this device, it’s DNA if you will; was conceived as a comprehensive guitar modeling platform. The progression of the platform is clearly still shaped by that DNA.

Cliff is a smart man. If there is opportunity and a viable market in expanding the vision for the Axe FX toward a more general, studio centric play; I would not be surprised to see him make a move in that direction.

As for the static mapping of USB channels, sure making them assignable would be powerful and quite wonderful. One thing I have noted with the Axe is that there is nothing half assed in this device. It is a well thought out piece of equipment. I believe that there is probably a good reason for how USB integration was implemented. Could be due to technical infeasibility or possibly assignable USB mappings did not fit with what FAS was trying to accomplish with the Axe III. It could also be that assignable USB mappings were of a lower priority than other features so it did not make the release.

I think FAS has a solid feel for what their customers are doing and what they want. Sure there are corner cases, but I suspect that at this time the majority of FAS customers will not find the USB implementation unduly restrictive and studio centric integrations are probably more of the exception than the rule. That clearly could change in the future.
 
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I think FAS has a solid feel for what their customers are doing and what they want. Sure there are corner cases, but I suspect that at this time the majority of FAS customers will not find the USB implementation unduly restrictive and studio centric integrations are probably more of the exception than the rule. That clearly could change in the future.

Yeah, this kind of got me thinking about what the next level would be for FAS. A very high end studio box? Who knows what will emerge from large brains out there....
 
Yeah, this kind of got me thinking about what the next level would be for FAS. A very high end studio box? Who knows what will emerge from large brains out there....
The future looks bright for FAS indeed. To have such a disruptive, innovative, and compelling product is so refreshing to see in a market space dominated by incremental derivation.
 
Chris, the same page says:

“Ultimate Flexibility”
“8x8 USB with Superior Performance”
“The center of your music workstation”


in bold titles. That’s not really accurate and it’s also what I concentrated on initially.

It’s easy enough to gloss over the text in that table. As I said before, the manual is correct and it appears the web page says as much but coming from a more studio perspective, it is easy to misinterpret.

Anyway why berate someone about this? There was confusion. So what. Let’s just hope for improved assignability if it’s possible.

That's right.

I was also excited when I first read these statements, when the Axe-FX III was announced. Then I realized that these 8x8 USB do not really have "Ultimate Flexibility" and therefore it could not be "The center of my music workstation". And, unfortunately, ASIO4ALL makes my DAW to crash when using more than one ASIO device.

But I still love it. I can sort out the signal routing in other ways.
 
Fair assessment. I'll outline the scenarios.

1) I am using Ableton as my DAW. I have about 6 different synths going into an audio interface. I originally wanted to use the Axe FX 3 as a way to run a gtr, bass, synths and/or vocal through it as an amp/effects unit (I like distorted vox). The ultimate goal was to have 4-8 separate outputs from Ableton into the Axe FX and be able to browse presets to hear the effected version as an fx loop to the daw. The way Axe FX works, presets default to IN 1 and OUT 1 so realistically I can only use it to send one piece of audio at a time if I want to browse presets. This eliminates the value of the 8ins and outs for me. In my scenario, it seems the AX8 provides almost the same functionality, but at least I could use my feet.

2) To browse presets, I have to run all inputs from Ableton into IN 1 (USB 5+6). I now can no longer run the guitar into the front of the Axe FX (because it is set to USB) so I have to run it as an input into my old audio interface and then out to the Axe FX which means I don't get to use the converters on the Axe FX. Ideally, I would be able to plug my gtr or bass into the Axe FX and also run a channel from my DAW into an input. Both the guitar and/or the other track from my DAW should be able to act as an input to the default presets. This would allow me to play the gtr or Ableton and have them routed to IN 1 so the default preset will pick up the signal.

3). I have two hardware effects pedals that I really like (Industrialectric RM-1N and Echo Degrader) and would like to incorporate in an fx loop. I have no idea how to incorporate them with the Axe FX with USB while still being able to use them against the default presets. I would have to patch them via the analog input-output pair but then I won't hear them when I change a preset without editing each preset because I would have to change the routing of each preset to include them.

The actual use case to me doesn't seem that complicated. I want to route audio from my DAW to Axe FX to use it as an outboard effects unit. I would like to do that for multiple audio streams, but I can't because of how presets are setup by default and its limitations with input-output routing and USB. It seems I can only use it as an analog outboard unit for one channel at a time.

Hopefully this helps.

Dude you're trying to do like 6 different things at once without a thought to having to route everything. If you want to run USB audio from the PC, you have to set up that input in a preset. If you don't want to set up USB audio in each preset, you'd have to run audio through the front. The presets are built for guitar, it would probably be a train wreck.

If you want to run USB audio from the computer, process vocals with one row and synths with another row, then use another row to play guitar, with your pedals in a hardware loop that you can bring into the guitar row, I think all that can happen at once, how many USB audio channels are there now, like 8 in 8 out? es complicado, y possible.
 
You won't get around having to add the right inputs to the factory presets to get your audio coming through the way you want. I bet it's as easy as adding the USB audio as an extra input, then setting up the hardware loop in the factory guitar row. You can save the block states as global blocks but it's not a modular set up yet where you can save a group of blocks and drop them all in at once like a Reaktor ensemble. WISH LIST INBOUND.
 
and, unfortunately, ASIO4ALL makes my DAW to crash when using more than one ASIO device.

Try Voicemeter Banana, and their audio cable thingy, it shows up as a virtual input that can send audio through windows to anywhere else. It's kind of like Soundflower and Soundflowerbed is for mac, on mac it's super easy to route anything to anything, or make an aggregate device, with windows like you said, try to open DAW and YouTube dies, try to watch YouTube and the DAW dies. It also helps to go into audio driver advanced settings and uncheck the box that says something about "allow exclusive use"
 
Input 7+8 is stereo, can't you split that and use 7 for vocals and 8 for a synth, you can grab the left and right channels of that USB input block and send them to their own rows. Too easy.
 
Read the USB chapter in the manual. It works as advertised.

Moving blocks/rows/columns: see Block > Move command in AE's menu bar.
Or Layout > Tools on the hardware.

Each preset is treated as a separate rig. There are no global effects across all presets. So an fx loop (an Output and Input pair) indeed has to be added to each preset.
yes manuals are a great thing
 
That's right.

I was also excited when I first read these statements, when the Axe-FX III was announced. Then I realized that these 8x8 USB do not really have "Ultimate Flexibility" and therefore it could not be "The center of my music workstation". And, unfortunately, ASIO4ALL makes my DAW to crash when using more than one ASIO device.

But I still love it. I can sort out the signal routing in other ways.

I agree with you on this. I think this advertising was a bit too much compared to what it actually is (speaking about the audio interface capability).
The hardware routing capability is truly fantastic, this is why I feel it is frustrating that the audio interface side don't allow to use the Axe at its full potential. It would have been "ultimate flexibility" if it was 16x16 instead of 8x8 imo. With something like this :
INs : 1 to 8, all the hardware inputs (dry signals), 9 to 16 all the 4 OUT Block (processed signal)
OUTs : 1 to 8 all the hardware outputs, 9 to 16 to the 4 INs blocks (to reamp/process signals).
This would have allowed such an amazing and simple integration and made it truly the center of my music workstation. Being able to record only 8 tracks is an improvement from the II, but with such a powerful beast is kind of a waste not to have more I think.
I still hope updates can make it better, either 16x16 or at least freely assignable in/outs.
Don't get me wrong, I still love the Axe for what it does, and the audio interface is still very usable and very good quality.

This being said, I would also advise to read the manual when buying this kind of equipment to know as much as possible what it is capable of.
 
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