Just bought a Fryette Power Station

You can keep Power Amp Modeling enabled when using the PS.

I recently got a PS-II and first experiences are very promising.
 
Thanks Yek, but doesn't that effectively create a "double" power amp chain situation or am I looking at this completely wrong. Thanks again.
 
The PS is a rather neutral power amp. That's not impossible. For example, Atomic's Reactor 50/50 (now discontinued) also was a neutral power amp with tubes. So you get the coloring of Fractal's power amp modeling, and you get the interaction between tube power amp and speaker.
 
I run my Axe FX with Power amp modeling on but Cab sims off to the PS then into a 2x12 cab. I found that having the Power Amp Modelling on kept the unique character of each amp type in the Axe and just plain sounded better. Like Yek mentioned, the PS doesn't colour the tone, just gives you a bit of warmth and sponginess compared to a solid state power amp. Make sure you use the FX loop return rather than the Line In on the PS with the Axe. You get so much more level and headroom that way.
 
These statements contradict each other. And the laws of physics, for that matter.

Not at all, haha. The PS doesn't seem to colour frequency wise but does impart a sponginess and compression that I associate with playing tube amps. More of a feel thing than a tonal EQ thing. See, not contradictory at all!
 
The PS doesn't seem to colour frequency wise

Let's pretend that "warmth" isn't a frequency related thing for a second. How do you know it doesn't? Did you compare it to a reference solid state amp?

does impart a sponginess and compression that I associate with playing tube amps.

Sure it does. And thus it colors the tone. See, that compression you're talking about, it's not free, it means that it introduces harmonics into the tone. Low order harmonics mostly when it's soft clipping. And they ARE sounds, they affect the spectrum. Also, the fact that it's soft clipping means that it doesn't dampen speaker resonances well, which means that there are time domain errors, too, given that it plays into guitar speakers.

Now don't get me wrong, it's a great device, rather neutral as far as tube amps go, can be used with great results, especially at low volumes. But let's not pretend it is something magical. It is what it is. It's a tube amp that sounds like a tube amp. It's not a transparent reference device.
 
I'll chip on hear. I use the ps with amp Sims on. The whole point of the ps is that it's neutral, or it wouldn't work as an attenuator/RE amp solution for real amps which it does very well. It's loud enough without clipping/compressing though if you really push it you can make it do that, but if you do your trying to go beyond its 50w clean rating.

Take this as you will, but I used a matrix gt1000 for years, and the 800 before that, and the xt before that. I was involved in evolving the product from a PA amp(the xt) to its current iteration. I brought the product to the attention of the afx community and was integral in its growth of popularity.

I switched from a vht 2/50/2 to the matrix products because of two things. Weight and colouration. The matrix is/wasn't perfect but was really good. I know how to tune the speaker pages and was happy for years.

I'm now with the ps though and the matrix is gone. the ps shed some weight and deals with the colouration issued of the old 2/50/2. It could do with a little more headroom if you play really loud (but it would be loud), and the Fryette lxii at 80w bridged with a similar flat freq option may be even better but I prefer my ps to the matrix despite my involvement with and love for that company.

Just don't go in thinking you can't use the afx power amp sims. As with anything, you can if you stay in the clean headroom part of the amp, which is a full 50w worth. Bits about as loud clean ( just a bit more actually) and a little quieter driven with driven (as they are pushing more power than the rated op of a valve amp normally) than the fender machete combo I have.
 
Let's take it from the horse's mouth:

...vacuum tube power amplifier that fine tunes your amplifier response which then drives your speaker cabinet.

If you've used a solid state powered attenuator, you've already experienced the flat speaker cab response...

Preserves the dynamic feel and speaker response...

Allows you to extend the voicing of any amplifier - a vintage amp can sound more modern, a modern amp more vintage, a dull sounding amp more alive, and a "spongy" amp can sound tighter, etc.

...power amp for adding tube power sound to direct recording

See, the manufacturer actually boasts that it colors the sound. So does physics say. And so does my personal experience, for what it's worth. That it does so isn't a bad thing per se, and it's quite natural to like tube sound.

But it does color, and it does not have 50 watts of clean headroom. It is what it is.

It does add less color and distortion than a typical tube guitar power amp, especially a 50 watt one.
 
Difficult on a phone, but let's break this down


The ps is a loadbox, but instead of reducing the signal to the level you want like a typical load, it reduces it to line level then RE amps it with a 50w power section to the volume you need.

So, it can take your 100w head cranked and make it as loud as you need us to 50w clean or can take a 15w amp that hadn't got enough clean headroom and give it up to 50w clean headroom.

To do this, the power section must be neutral or the tone of the original amp would change. It does this really well.

So, bypassing the loadbox part you have a very neutral 50w mono power amp. The 50w is its clean rating though, and depending on the signal you feed it you can push it more than that at which point it does compress first, then goes into power amp clipping.

So, as long as you stay in the 50w headroom then you get all the good stuff (mostly speaker interaction) but with a neutral response.

As far as the afx goes, you can keep the pa sims on as long as your in the clean range. So, if you get enough clean volume from a normal 50w amp you'd be fine. If you struggle and need a bigger amp to get your clean tones (crystal cleans not edge of breakup) then the ps won't go loud enough for you while being able to use the power amp sims.

I have to say I don't get using the fx return rather than line level. The fx return uses the pre amp part of the ps to boost the lower level signal so the pa part gets a hotter signal (when using the same source) using fx run v line. ultimately though, the pa still tops out at 50w. You still have the same max vol before clipping. I get there using the line level. I guess if your patch levels are low, and you can't get s clean patch to break up via the line input, then using the fx return would give you more, but your not going to bet more headroom or clean volume as such.
 
RE the quote from Fryette. That's true for the whole unit, but mot for the power amp part. The fine tuning and colouration is from the switches primarily which are only active for the loadbox part of the unit.

You do have depth and presence on the pa part, which can modify the response, but they can also be set neutrally.

When testing, I could get the clean tones from the ps identical to those via my matrix by setting flat (within clean headroom). So much do I didn't think I'd keep the ps initially. I could also change it quite a bit using depth and presence though which cam be useful in certain rooms.

On gainy stuff, using the neutral settings, it was close, but the ps was just a touch livelier. This is almost certainly not down to the power amp of the ps, but the interaction of the op transformer with speakers. This is the bit a Matrix can't do (like any ss amp due to how they work) and the bit you have to try and replicate I'm the afx it's the hardest part to do in a patch using ss amp and real cab, and Imo isn't quite right.

So yes, the ps as a valve amp is the best valve amp for use with the afx available. It works really well with pa sims on as long as the inherent clean volume is adequate for your needs. It does have some interaction via the op transformer where a matrix doesn't but that was (Imo) the biggest issue with the matrix. next to a real amp (rather than a power amp) the matrix just sounded/felt a little flat. With the ps its just right.

Whether it's physically right or not, or technical perfectly flat or not doesn't really matter Imo. It's about sound/response and Imo the ps is closer to a real value amps response than the matrix, again with the caveat you stay in the clean headroom volume limitations.
 
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the ps is closer to a real value amps response than the matrix.

Of course. It's a tube amp, so it behaves like a tube amp. It colors the tone. Which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you use it.

I personally find it absolutely awesome as an attenuator or a power amp for low volume. For loud volume, not so much. An ENGL E850/100 provides much more clean headroom than this one.

This is the bit a Matrix can't do, and the bit you have to try and replicate I'm the afx it's the hardest part to do in a patch using ss amp and real cab, and Imo isn't quite right.

The Matrix cannot do it because it's a neutral amp. The PS isn't one, so it does it automatically, which is the beauty of tube amps for guitar amplification into guitar cabinets.

The settings in the AFX are somewhat difficult, right, and most people don't even bother to touch them. They do provide more flexibility though.
 
Whether it's physically right or not doesn't really matter Imo.

It does, somewhat. When people claim that it doesn't color the tone it's important to understand this statement in perspective. Because when you dig deeper, it turns out they have no basis for the claim except that they compared it to some other tube amps, which colored more. And it turns out, consequently, that they don't like neutral amps that much, and prefer the coloration. This is totally subjective, which is okay, but it needs to be clear that it is.

Well, at least I made wrong purchases based on other people's subjective preferences which I didn't recognize as such.
 
Of course. It's a tube amp, so it behaves like a tube amp. It colors the tone. Which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you use it.

I personally find it absolutely awesome as an attenuator or a power amp for low volume. For loud volume, not so much. An ENGL E850/100 provides much more clean headroom than this one.



The Matrix cannot do it because it's a neutral amp. The PS isn't one, so it does it automatically, which is the beauty of tube amps for guitar amplification into guitar cabinets.


Not True.

The matrix doesn't not do it because it's neutral, it doesn't do it because it's ss. A non neutral ss amp won't do it either.

All valve amps needs an output transformer. ss amps dont have output transformers. it's that op transformer interacting with rhe speaker load that is the difference.

This us emulated in the afx, on the speaker pages of the amp block, but it works best into Irs then frfr monitoring. It's not so good into real cabs. this is what makes a valve amp better with cabs than a ss one. it's nothing to do with freq neutrality.

Yes, Any 100w valve amp will give more clean headroom than a 59w one. The Engle isn't as neutral tonally though (it and the VHT 2/50/2 or 2/100/2 are the most neutral traditional valve power amps though).
It boils down to how much volume you need. A 100w ps would be awesome for headroom, but would kind of defeats the units primary function.



One thing though, it's perfectly possible to build a neutral response valve power amp. Top end audiophile amps are just that. in a guitar application the limiting factor is volume needed therefore headroom required, as big headroom is how you keep the neutrality.

With less and less volume being required (or even allowed) these days it's becoming easier to achieve.
 
The matrix doesn't not do it because it's neutral, it doesn't do it because it's ss. A non neutral ss amp won't do it either.

The Matrix doesn't do it not because it's SS, it doesn't do it because it's a voltage amplifier with low output impedance and efficient negative feedback. Which is how neutral amps are made. It is not practically feasible to build a neutral tube amp. Which, in turn, is why you will not find a tube reference amp.

All valve amps needs an output transformer. ss amps dont have output transformers. it's that op transformer interacting with rhe speaker load that is the difference.

No it isn't true. Sure, output transformers are part of the problem, they introduce their own distortion and phase shifts which make negative feedback on tube amps less efficient/more difficult to do, but they are not the sole or even the major difference. Transconductance amplifiers just cannot dampen speaker resonance as effectively as voltage amplifiers do. You can make a solid state transconductance amplifier which will behave like a tube amp, which has been done, it's just a weird thing to do apart from experimenting. You cannot make a neutral tube amp though. You can make it more linear with negative feedback, but as you raise the amount of negative feedback you lower gain and thus headroom, and make clipping hard vs soft, so you start running into sound that's usually associated with solid state, apart from other problems such as stability. Hard clipping requires more wattage, obviously, which, again, is difficult to achieve with tubes. Some tube amps are more linear than others, though. But you cannot achieve the same precision as you can with SS. That's just the way it is, sorry.

Top end audiophile amps are just that

Well, no they aren't. And let's not dive into the audiophile mythology here please. :)

Also, hifi amps, tube or SS, do not use guitar speakers as load. This makes a huge difference because hifi speakers use mechanical damping, which makes an amplifier's job way easier in terms of linearity. Guitar speakers have loose suspension, are very efficient and you must have electrical ways of damping the resonance if you want linearity.

Try plugging that audiophile thingie into a guitar cabinet and see how linear it gets.
 
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I wasnt going to bring up guitar speakers, though your right.

You can also debate this stuff for years. It has been done in both guitar and audiophile circles for a long time.

You actually don't want to damped the speakers really, as true guitar amps dont. The afx actually tries to artificially add that looseness. It is true, that the speakers and amp interaction wd live in guitar amps was originally because they weren't that good (compared to hifi type amps and speakers). They were cheap and nasty by comparison.

Ultimately, whatever side of the fence you sit (and im very pro ss hence my involvement with matrix), the point of the afx is to be like many different guitar amplifiers in sound and feel. When it comes to doing that in traditional format of amp and guitar speakers, the ps is closer to that aim than the matrix Imo.

I say this with 8 years afx experience, always amp/cab, comparing both solutions in s live environment with several high end guitar amps.

The ps is loud enough for my needs live Un mic'd, and keeps the differences between amp sims true (as true ad the matrix), and doubts/feels closer to the real thing at the vol levels i need.
 
Ultimately, whatever side of the fence you sit

As a matter of fact, I don't see a fence at all. :) I use SS almost exclusively with my Axe, but that's mostly for convenience and versatility, as I don't play into a single cabinet and use IEMs.

I do love the sound of tube amps, like most people.

I would use a tube amp probably with my Axe if I were playing into a cabinet at home. Possibly even a PS.

To reiterate, I never said the Matrix was somehow superior. I said that IF you need an amp for loud backline AND you use vintage amp models AND you're playing into the same cabinet AND you're willing to spend some time tweaking the speaker page THEN, in my opinion, it's a safer bet for someone who cannot try both options personally.
 
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I get you. There are a lot of ifs there though lol, and the only 1I think is really important is the "loud backline" bit. It depends what "loud" is. If its in the PS's headroom then the PS is still a better (IMO) option. If "loud" is more than the POS can do clean, then yes, the Matix is probably safer.
 
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