Just bought a Fryette Power Station

j8stringer said:
Thanks for the tip. Going in the Line In, I have my front Volume knob at 3/4, to push the power tubes...a sound I like and very reactive to what the AF preset is doing....going to try the Fx In, but with the Volume down...cheers.
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Just a follow up....I tried the Fx Return input...first a big gain increase and loud hum when not playing...so I changed my FX Level setting from Hi to Low...(HI is for Line Level, which I thought would be correct) the low setting worked for me...no buzzing and my mix with my wet side, FRFR speakers was much clearer....I called up a Blackface Twin setting and I'm having big fun.
 
dschaaf said:
Hi j8stringer,

Very interesting setup. I just took a look at the UA610's online and was also able to find some used ones. I don't know much about tube pre's at all...could I possibly trouble you to let me know (other than the UA610) what other ones you would consider "good" quality?

Also, what does your signal chain look like and are you using the "Line In" or "FX Return" on the PS?

Thanks so much!

Derek
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I did leave out an important part of how my signal chain is set up....My dry signal, going to the PS...gets shunted off of the Amp block, before the cab block, the dry signal then hits a PEQ and then a FXL ( only have the dry channel on, the other three at 0db ) to Output #2 and cable to the PS... sent to FX Return, FX Level Lo. NOTE: on the AF Layout Mix block...turn the dry signal channel to 0db so you don't double the signal in the wet side.
 
j8stringer said:
I did leave out an important part of how my signal chain is set up....My dry signal, going to the PS...gets shunted off of the Amp block, before the cab block, the dry signal then hits a PEQ and then a FXL ( only have the dry channel on, the other three at 0db ) to Output #2 and cable to the PS... sent to FX Return, FX Level Lo. NOTE: on the AF Layout Mix block...turn the dry signal channel to 0db so you don't double the signal in the wet side.
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Great, thanks for the info! :)
 
Those you looking the PS, have you noticed the LXII in the power amp section? Says it is for FRFR. Anybody have info on it and how it might compare/contrast to PS for Axefx use?
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Ran the PS next to my GT1000 for a month after those vid comparisons. Took both to an amp fest day locally as well to test both solutions next to real amps (going through their relevant cabs - a Drz Z Maz 18, Ceriatone Dumble clone, Bad Cat, Two Rocks Sig Rev, JTM45, Fender Delux Reverb, Tone King Imperial, Soldano SLO) . Have had the Matrix for years (and a GT800 before that, and a VHT2/50/2 before that).

After all the side by side, and AFX/Amp comparisons via both power amps -- I have sold the Matrix, and now run the PS exclusively.

Ill also add, I have a Fender Machete (just because) and I rant he speaker out to the PS - matched the volume with the PS on and off - and once Presence and Depth were matched (and with the mini toggles on flat) I couldnt tell the difference. Tried running the FX out to the Matrix, and couldnt get as close. I then matches a patch to the Fender direct with both the Matrix and PS in line. The PS was spot on - the Matrix was very close - but lacked something - it was the congestion in the low mids that ninja9 talked about.

FWIW - I run Power Sims on with no difference in feel to the real amps.

Regards getting the cab to respond better with the PS - I think thats down to the op transformer on a valve amp - they do interact with the speaker more. Nailing the speaker tab in the amp block can make that difference very small though. It can take a little work though.
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Might have a play this evening, which input do you use on the PS?

Cheers

Spence
 
ninja9 said:
I have a Fryette PS and a Matrix GT800FX. I need to do more comparisons but so far the gt800 sounds a little bit congested and muddy in comparison. The power station seems to get the cabinet responding in a more natural way and cuts through without being noticeably brighter.

I want to like the matrix more because I don't really want to muck around with tubes, but so far I can't help but prefer the Fryette. I'm interested in others' experiences.
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Hi,
came across this threat and was wondering if you're interested in selling the Matrix? Sorry mate, needed to ask.
 
ninja9 said:
Sold sorry.
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Tanks ninja9...guess you kept the Fryette. Do you mind telling me how you use it? The Fryette caught my eye and I'm seriously thinking it could do for me as well. It would be the Axe-Fx and a 2x12 cab. Would it work? Enough volume on stage (there's more then one guitar!
 
vangrieg said:
If you want to plug your Axe into PS and the into a cabinet, it'll act just as a tube power amp, with the usual benefits and drawbacks. So yes, it'll work.
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Thanks vangrieg....although you don't seems very convinced of the setup! When you say drawbacks...what you mean? Look, I'm trying to figure out if I should go with a Matrix or a Fryette. If you or anyone can give me some advise it'll very much appreciated.
 
jarabuandi said:
although you don't seems very convinced of the setup!
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Why, no, that's certainly a working setup. The benefits and drawbacks are related to the fact that it's a tube amp, and there's no such thing as a neutral tube amp. It is theoretically possible, but not practically feasible. The problem (or a feature, depending on how you look at it) is that, in a nutshell, speakers have resonant frequencies which tube amps aren't capable of damping well enough. Speakers also have impedances which vary quite a lot across frequencies. Tube amps (or, more precisely, transconductance amplifiers) behave differently when impedance rises - IIRC, output voltage rises as well. This is in contrast with solid state (voltage) amplifiers where voltage remains the same, but current drops, so total power output drops as well. Some tube amps have negative feedback to more effectively dampen resonances, but they cannot be as effective and linear as solid state amps. As a result, you get low and high boost with tube amps, and, while this means they aren't transparent, unlike solid state counterparts, they sound more pleasing, or, as some people put it, "full", while solid state amps may sound "dull" and "lifeless".

So, when you connect a tube amp to a guitar cabinet, all those things happen "automatically", the amp sort of "tunes" itself to the cab. With solid state, you need to go to the Speaker page in AFX at select parameters that match a specific cabinet for best results.

So now you tell me - is it a good thing or a bad thing? It's good because it's sort of easy and automatic. It's bad because you may need to (at least partially) forego AFX's power amp modeling. I personally used both tube and solid state amps with AFX, and I ended up staying with the Matrix. It just works better for my purposes and usage scenarios. But obviously, lots of people like the PS, too. I'm not a fan.

I think it will be easier to give advice if you say a bit more about how you use your AFX and that cabinet. You mentioned the stage - but is it just for monitoring? Is it for backline? Is it mic'ed? Is it the same cabinet always? What is its impedance rating? Why do you need a power amp?
 
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vangrieg said:
Why, no, that's certainly a working setup. The benefits and drawbacks are related to the fact that it's a tube amp, and there's no such thing as a neutral tube amp. It is theoretically possible, but not practically feasible. The problem (or a feature, depending on how you look at it) is that, in a nutshell, speakers have resonant frequencies which tube amps aren't capable of damping well enough. Speakers also have impedances which vary quite a lot across frequencies. Tube amps (or, more precisely, transconductance amplifiers) behave differently when impedance rises - IIRC, output voltage rises as well. This is in contrast with solid state (voltage) amplifiers where voltage remains the same, but current drops, so total power output drops as well. Some tube amps have negative feedback to more effectively dampen resonances, but they cannot be as effective and linear as solid state amps. As a result, you get low and high boost with tube amps, and, while this means they aren't transparent, unlike solid state counterparts, they sound more pleasing, or, as some people put it, "full", while solid state amps may sound "dull" and "lifeless".

So, when you connect a tube amp to a guitar cabinet, all those things happen "automatically", the amp sort of "tunes" itself to the cab. With solid state, you need to go to the Speaker page in AFX at select parameters that match a specific cabinet for best results.

So now you tell me - is it a good thing or a bad thing? It's good because it's sort of easy and automatic. It's bad because you may need to (at least partially) forego AFX's power amp modeling. I personally used both tube and solid state amps with AFX, and I ended up staying with the Matrix. It just works better for my purposes and usage scenarios. But obviously, lots of people like the PS, too. I'm not a fan.

I think it will be easier to give advice if you say a bit more about how you use your AFX and that cabinet. You mentioned the stage - but is it just for monitoring? Is it for backline? Is it mic'ed? Is it the same cabinet always? What is its impedance rating? Why do you need a power amp?
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Thanks for clarifying the SS vs tube differences.
At the moment I'm only playing in a jam band. My setup is my Axe-fx2 + MFC and just for me on stage my EV ZLX 12p (OUT 1) as backline that just doesn't do it as backline (multiple guitars on stage). FOH get OUT2. I've got a 2x12 cab that I'd like to fit with speakers and then either a matrix or a Fryette.

So basically, that cab isn't used just yet and I'm looking for some options.


The problem is that the
 
@jarabuandi if it's for backline (i.e. supposed to be loud) and it's the same cabinet all the time, I personally would go with the Matrix. Especially if you use amp models where the power section matters a lot and MV setting makes a difference.

The PS is loud enough, but, at 50 watts, you won't have a lot of clean headroom. So it will color the sound and start compressing and clipping at loud volumes. So if you rely on power amp modeling in AFX, you'll have two power amps in series, with somewhat unpredictable results. You may end up liking the sound, but it's hard to say. I think the Matrix will just be more reliable. If you don't care for power amp modeling much, and use modern high gain amps mostly, you may get away with just the PS, but keep in mind that, since you use both direct to FOH and power amp routes, you might have to set up the power section cleaner than you might otherwise like.

If you do go with the Matrix, spend some time tuning the Speaker page to your specific cab. I think you'll end up happy with the results.

Also, using the PS just as a power amp is somewhat wasteful, IMO, it's not what makes this device great really.

For reference, I used a few tube power amps with varying results, then used ENGL E850/100, which was great, but WAY TOO DAMN HEAVY, then got the Matrix, which was by far the best option for AFX, IMO, although it does require more tweaking to sound great. Now I very rarely use the real cabs on stage, they're mostly for the looks. Nothing beats a silent stage for a great mix.
 
vangrieg said:
@jarabuandi if it's for backline (i.e. supposed to be loud) and it's the same cabinet all the time, I personally would go with the Matrix. Especially if you use amp models where the power section matters a lot and MV setting makes a difference.

The PS is loud enough, but, at 50 watts, you won't have a lot of clean headroom. So it will color the sound and start compressing and clipping at loud volumes. So if you rely on power amp modeling in AFX, you'll have two power amps in series, with somewhat unpredictable results. You may end up liking the sound, but it's hard to say. I think the Matrix will just be more reliable. If you don't care for power amp modeling much, and use modern high gain amps mostly, you may get away with just the PS, but keep in mind that, since you use both direct to FOH and power amp routes, you might have to set up the power section cleaner than you might otherwise like.

If you do go with the Matrix, spend some time tuning the Speaker page to your specific cab. I think you'll end up happy with the results.

Also, using the PS just as a power amp is somewhat wasteful, IMO, it's not what makes this device great really.
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It is for backline and not necessarily to be loud, but yes the stage is loud (too loud for my liking). I was more interested in the Matrix as well but when I saw this thread and the good reviews I thought it could be another contender. I think I'll stick with Matrix and follow your advise.

BTW, if you don't mind...any advise for the speakers (I still need them)? I'll make it easy for you. I'm not a tone chaser as such. We play mostly blues and rock covers. I know it's a though one... just give me a few choices :)
 
First of all, the unit deserves the good reviews it gets. Because it's a great device, and I think it was the first of it's kind. But it is important to understand what kind exactly. It is, first and foremost, a loadbox and an attenuator - I.e. it was created for playing music at low volume while cranking up your power amp. It can also help playing louder if you have a lunchbox 20 watt amp with a crappy power amp inside. As such, the device can serve as a standalone power amp, of course, and a good one at that - it is compact and relatively lightweight compared to other options, and it may be excellent for axe, especially at bedroom volumes.

However, if you crank it up, it'll still behave like a tube amp, it'll start clipping and compressing, there's no way around it. So if you rely on power amp modeling, this may be a problem. You play blues, this means that you probably use vintage amp models, and they rely on power sections for their sound a lot, so you can't just turn that off. At certain volumes, this may be somewhat of a problem. Although, of course, it doesn't mean you won't like it, but who knows. It's hard to judge without trying - I certainly don't know what you call loud or not loud. But I think that the Matrix will be a safer choice.

Note that it's just my opinion though, and I'm some random guy from a forum. :)

Regarding speakers, I honestly have no idea, I personally never owned a cabinet, don't plan to, don't need one, and don't use any FRFR speakers apart from a couple if studio monitors. I do use cabinets on stage sometimes, but that's just for feedback/feel, and I'm happy with any 4x12 available. We stopped using cabinets during rehearsals (which is a real blessing), and I certainly don't have one at home. Sorry.
 
vangrieg said:
First of all, the unit deserves the good reviews it gets. Because it's a great device, and I think it was the first of it's kind. But it is important to understand what kind exactly. It is, first and foremost, a loadbox and an attenuator - I.e. it was created for playing music at low volume while cranking up your power amp. It can also help playing louder if you have a lunchbox 20 watt amp with a crappy power amp inside. As such, the device can serve as a standalone power amp, of course, and a good one at that - it is compact and relatively lightweight compared to other options, and it may be excellent for axe, especially at bedroom volumes.

However, if you crank it up, it'll still behave like a tube amp, it'll start clipping and compressing, there's no way around it. So if you rely on power amp modeling, this may be a problem. You play blues, this means that you probably use vintage amp models, and they rely on power sections for their sound a lot, so you can't just turn that off. At certain volumes, this may be somewhat of a problem. Although, of course, it doesn't mean you won't like it, but who knows. It's hard to judge without trying - I certainly don't know what you call loud or not loud. But I think that the Matrix will be a safer choice.

Note that it's just my opinion though, and I'm some random guy from a forum. :)

Regarding speakers, I honestly have no idea, I personally never owned a cabinet, don't plan to, don't need one, and don't use any FRFR speakers apart from a couple if studio monitors. I do use cabinets on stage sometimes, but that's just for feedback/feel, and I'm happy with any 4x12 available. We stopped using cabinets during rehearsals (which is a real blessing), and I certainly don't have one at home. Sorry.
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This statement "It is, first and foremost, a loadbox and an attenuator" is what got me confused the most hence my initial question "Would it work". Again, thanks for clarifying this for me. Looks like I'm going to stick with a Matrix amp. Thanks hips vangrieg for your insight and valuable help with this! I'll get matrix first then look for some speakers. Cheers mate, have a good week-end.:)
 
Interesting topic. I've been intrigued for some time regarding the PS as a load/attenuator versus other available alternatives, but not quite understanding it being used solely as an amp into a cab (in regards to using with the AFX). Isn't this effectively making the AFX nothing more than a preamp since the PA sim and Cab block would be bypassed? Why not just use an FX8 instead? Thanks in advance and my apologies as I'm surely missing something simple (I'll blame it on the hangover).
 
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