JP2C Graphic EQ

[Snouttrout]

That`s your problem...
I also used a Matrix and don`t like it. Tryed Mesa 20/20, Engl 830/50,Peavy Cassic 50/50 and ended with a Synergy 50/50 and be Happy since i baught it.

I've considered the ps-100, but I haven't tried one out.

 

[OrganicZed]

When I put the Fryette PS-2 head to head with a solid state amp I found that the solid state amp sounded better.

Here is my comparison:

Okay, the wife had a baby shower to attend today so I had the house to myself for a few hours and I did the side by side test.

Here's how I set it up: I ran the Fryette PS-2 and QSC RMX2450 each into their own side of the the same stereo cab (VHT era FatBottom 4x12). I then set up a patch so that I could switch scenes to toggle between the outputs feeding the respective amps. I volume matched them by ear and proceeded to play with the settings in the two scenes. I set the amp blocks the same except with respect to the impedance curve settings (full amp modeling on, no cab block). The output mode was set to SS power amp and cab. I tried to get the two signals sounding the same by adjusting the impedance curve manually for the one going into the Fryette. I was playing at volumes around the 110 dB in the room.

Thoughts: The Fryette produced a tone with a lot more high frequency content no matter how I set the impedance curve in the Axe-FX. I was able to tame it some with the output EQ from the amp block, turning the presence knob to zero, or by using the resistive load setting for the impedance curve, but it was still apparent when switching between the two amps. The depth knob on the Fryette was a welcome addition as it allowed the ability to add in some extra girth / thump to the tone, but I was able to mimic that on the QSC just by boosting a bit of lows in the output EQ. I liked the way that the tone reacted to guitar volume knob adjustments a bit more when using the Fryette, but I mostly attribute that to the extra high frequency content and the fact that I prefer brighter clean / edge of breakup tones. Picking dynamics with the two amps seemed very similar, so clearly that was coming from the Axe-FX and not from the power amplifier.

My conclusion: I prefer the solid state power from the QSC RMX2450. I was surprised by that outcome. That added high end from the Fryette tube amp was pretty strident in comparison and it wasn't something that I was able to overcome with settings in the Axe-FX or on the power amp itself. The transparent nature of the solid state power from the QSC gave me all the control over the tone with the settings in the Axe-FX. I thought I had remembered the solid state amp sounding too stiff, but that wasn't the case when I was playing through it today. It felt really natural and had plenty of dynamic range.

The PS-2 did add some extra sauce to the tone and I could see why some prefer it as their power amp of choice, but I think I'll be relegating it to re-amp / attenuation duties or as a power amp for my GP/DI.

 

[Snouttrout]

I'd hazard a guess that the difference has more to do with the difference in physical power sections than GEQ settings. I'd play with the amp block impedance curves though if I wanted to get a little closer. As @My name is mud said, while the "V shape EQ" is a handy trick on those amps to get going, there really is no substitute for trusting your ears. Having said that...

If you really wanted to get granular, run some pink noise (synth block) from the Axe-Fx into the fx return of the JP2C with the GEQ engaged. Record a clip. Use a plugin with EQ matching capability (Pro-Q3, Curve EQ etc) to generate a reference curve.

Next, place a GEQ after the synth block on the Axe and set it to 5 band Mark type. Disable the GEQ on the amp. Move the sliders on the Axe-Fx 5 band GEQ until you match the reference curve. Plug those values into the GEQ in the amp block.

FWIW the 5 band GEQ measures differently on my studio preamp than my Mark IV at the same settings so I imagine an "authentic" 5 band GEQ would leave most people with the same issue of "I put the sliders where JP told me to and it's not identical".

Thanks for the detailed response, Leon!

 

[Snouttrout]

Runing the FM9 into the effects loop of the real JP2C and turning off the power amp modeling gives me exactly what I love. I'm going to try this a band practice on Thursday. There's very little noise, easy setup, great feel. I like that I can adjust the prescence on the real JP2C amp to best suit the room. Of course, I'm losing all of the direct out benefits. I'm still working on this.

I didn't have much luck using the matrix power and adjusting the speaker impedance with a real cab.

 

[lastcaress83]

I didn't have much luck using the matrix power and adjusting the speaker impedance with a real cab.

What sort of differences are you noticing using the AF3 as a preamp into JP2C method vs the AF3 into Matrix?

 

[Snouttrout]

What sort of differences are you noticing using the AF3 as a preamp into JP2C method vs the AF3 into Matrix?

I am getting more clarity and thumb this way. It sounds much closer to the actual amp now, athough my graphic EQ settings are not the same.

 

[Snouttrout]

What sort of differences are you noticing using the AF3 as a preamp into JP2C method vs the AF3 into Matrix?

I've also noticed a difference in feel that I like. I will keep trying with the matrix. I'm sure there's a way to the get the sound I want, but I have to tweek the AxeFx more.

 

[jamesmarshall]

This might be the problem. I just used the real JP2C as the power amp, and I really liked the sound and feeling beneath my fingers. But I'm thinking I should try to nail the speaker impedance curve of my cabinet.

The settings in the 5 band eq will never match the ones on the amp. There are too many variables for that to happen. If you can get the tone close by ear with different eq settings then you found what works for you.

As far as your other post about the feel. This where you are going to need to play with the speaker tab in the amp block. I remember Cliff pointing out that the IC, Thump, and compression are your keys with a cab or IR. When they line up things change like you can't believe.

Don't do it by sight, but by ear and feel. You will need to tweak these to get that thump in the cab same thing with an IR

 

[lastcaress83]

I've also noticed a difference in feel that I like. I will keep trying with the matrix. I'm sure there's a way to the get the sound I want, but I have to tweek the AxeFx more.

I feel you. I’ve tried extensively to get the Brit 800 model to sound like my 2203x and, while it’s decently close, I cant seem to nail the depth, glassy high end, pick attack etc with the Axe+power amp. Like my 1987x and tremoverb comparisons, the Axe sounds damn good and can be a blast to play until I plug into the real thing and hear/feel what’s missing. Even when I think I get them nailed I record with a backed off mic through the same cab and can hear the real amp immediately.