JP2C Graphic EQ

[Snouttrout]

I know that the AxeFX's graphic EQ uses different tapers than the real JP2C amp, but I'm wondering if anyone has identified the decibel values that correspond to the lines on the real amp's graphic EQ. I am always struggling to the get same sound from the Axe with the matrix GT1000FX and my real boogie cabs, and I think this is the reason. The graphic EQ is an integral part of the achieving the amp's sound, so I wish the real amp's tapers were modeled--even though some deem these as design flaws. And before you say "ears not eyes"...believe me I have tried and tried over the last couple of years, and I have been unable to nail it.

Have you guys figured out what graphic EQ settings on the Axe correspond the graphic EQ lines of the real amp? Maybe I can get closer if I know these.

 

[Randalljax]

I know that the AxeFX's graphic EQ uses different tapers than the real JP2C amp, but I'm wondering if anyone has identified the decibel values that correspond to the lines on the real amp's graphic EQ. I am always struggling to the get same sound from the Axe with the matrix GT1000FX and my real boogie cabs, and I think this is the reason. The graphic EQ is an integral part of the achieving the amp's sound, so I wish the real amp's tapers were modeled--even though some deem these as design flaws. And before you say "ears not eyes"...believe me I have tried and tried over the last couple of years, and I have been unable to nail it.

Have you guys figured out what graphic EQ settings on the Axe correspond the graphic EQ lines of the real amp? Maybe I can get closer if I know these.

View attachment 115044

Try these Cliff posted for the Mark2 a while back

80 Hz: 4.8
240 Hz: 2.6
750 Hz: -4.5
2200: -0.2
6600: 0

Or Check Leon Todd’s filth preset and copy his Mark eq settings

 

[Snouttrout]

Do these values represent the lines on the graphic EQ or sugested V shape graphic eq settings?

Try these Cliff posted for the Mark2 a while back

80 Hz: 4.8
240 Hz: 2.6
750 Hz: -4.5
2200: -0.2
6600: 0

Or Check Leon Todd’s filth preset and copy his Mark eq settings

 

[Snouttrout]

Try these Cliff posted for the Mark2 a while back

80 Hz: 4.8
240 Hz: 2.6
750 Hz: -4.5
2200: -0.2
6600: 0

Or Check Leon Todd’s filth preset and copy his Mark eq settings

Yes, these are suggested V eq setting I believe.

 

[Randalljax]

Yes, these are suggested V eq setting I believe.

Db I think so you are boosting 80 +4 db
Cutting 750 by 4.5 db
Try and see if it work or at least gets close enough ears can get the rest

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I more or less make it look just like how JP sets his, but maybe bring the extreme high and low ones down a smidge. Sounds great. Usually brings any amp to life.

 

[Snouttrout]

Db I think so you are boosting 80 +4 db
Cutting 750 by 4.5 db
Try and see if it work or at least gets close enough ears can get the rest

I tried

80 Hz: 4.8
240 Hz: 2.6
750 Hz: -4.5
2200: -0.2
6600: 0

It sounds good, but I had to boost the 6600 slider way up...to 4.5. I'll try this with the band later.

 

[unscarred]

Try the amp setting on this vid, works for me.



Edit: works best with JP IR

 

[musicman0001]

It very much depends also on which guitar and IR your using.

F.A.: I was playing around with Pull Me Under in a One-IR-Setup. And my guitar and cab I got way different values that the original amp settings.
Almost V shaped +7.2 low and high and 7.20 middle. Not same settings as Petrucci RIG from Cooper Carter.

But when I did this (set up my guitar(s) and studio on my One-IR-Setup) the sound of my neck and bridge pickup behave and sound in line with the song. And because I have done this also with several other amps my guitar has never played better and the sound is great on all positions!

 

[Snouttrout]

I always use a real cabinet when I play live, and I also split that signal off to an IR as well for the PA. I have always enjoyed the tones I get through the IRs for recording, but I just prefer a traditional cabinet for live. So, I'm using the Matrix GT1000FX and a mesa boogie cab. I find that I don't cut through the loud band room mix unless I have the 750-slider set to at least -5 db. I also boost the modeled amp to help cut through, which is something I don't need with the real amp.

The thing I'm trying to figure out is why just can't get it sound like my amp. Right now, its sounds best and absolutely FEELS best under my fingers when I use the FM3 in 4 cable method with the real amp but then I lose the direct out that I enjoy.

I'm convinced I'm doing something wrong, but I am beginning to accept that I prefer the Axe for recordings and the real amp for live use.

 

[lastcaress83]

If you have a neutral tube power amp, adjust the AFIII accordingly and try that. If not, try the AFIII JP2C as a preamp into your real JP2C power amp to see if you can pinpoint what exactly is off. I’m finding with my AFIII that nailing the interaction between power amp and your specific cabinet impedance is vital to replicating the sound of a tube amp. Have you found and set your cab’s resonant frequency?
Also, nailing the sound with your IR will require some compromises with the power amp/cab setup because you’ll presumably be using the settings in the amp block for FRFR. Maybe combining the AFIII speaker breakup, drive, compression, etc with your cabinet is contributing to your issues.

 

[My name is mud]

I know that the AxeFX's graphic EQ uses different tapers than the real JP2C amp, but I'm wondering if anyone has identified the decibel values that correspond to the lines on the real amp's graphic EQ. I am always struggling to the get same sound from the Axe with the matrix GT1000FX and my real boogie cabs, and I think this is the reason. The graphic EQ is an integral part of the achieving the amp's sound, so I wish the real amp's tapers were modeled--even though some deem these as design flaws. And before you say "ears not eyes"...believe me I have tried and tried over the last couple of years, and I have been unable to nail it.

Have you guys figured out what graphic EQ settings on the Axe correspond the graphic EQ lines of the real amp? Maybe I can get closer if I know these.

View attachment 115044

One day I was thinking of it : How should I do to measure the taper of the real amp (as I own it), and know where the min and max db of each frequencies are in the mark 5 eq of the 3?

In the end as it is boring, I’ve done it by ears . What can I say is that you need to forget the « big V » you have in your pic and also in the amp, and do a smaller one to match the original

 

[Leise]

So, I'm using the Matrix GT1000FX and a mesa boogie cab.

That`s your problem...
I also used a Matrix and don`t like it. Tryed Mesa 20/20, Engl 830/50,Peavy Cassic 50/50 and ended with a Synergy 50/50 and be Happy since i baught it.

 

[VidarAus]

There has been so much discussion on this point (including by me) that perhaps Cliff might consider just creating an "authentic" taper option for the Mesa 5 band eq based on the amp he modeled (I believe the amp was one of JP's personal amps). I get it - having an "authentic" version would psychologically make me feel better, as I could match the visual settings from pictures of the amp. It wouldn't ever sound exactly like the amp I was matching as there are too many other variables (not least of which is talent!) but would be cool nonetheless.

 

[Randalljax]

There has been so much discussion on this point (including by me) that perhaps Cliff might consider just creating an "authentic" taper option for the Mesa 5 band eq based on the amp he modeled (I believe the amp was one of JP's personal amps). I get it - having an "authentic" version would psychologically make me feel better, as I could match the visual settings from pictures of the amp. It wouldn't ever sound exactly like the amp I was matching as there are too many other variables (not least of which is talent!) but would be cool nonetheless.

That might not be a bad option to have the JP Mark 5 band as list of types

 

[2112]

I'd hazard a guess that the difference has more to do with the difference in physical power sections than GEQ settings. I'd play with the amp block impedance curves though if I wanted to get a little closer. As @My name is mud said, while the "V shape EQ" is a handy trick on those amps to get going, there really is no substitute for trusting your ears. Having said that...

If you really wanted to get granular, run some pink noise (synth block) from the Axe-Fx into the fx return of the JP2C with the GEQ engaged. Record a clip. Use a plugin with EQ matching capability (Pro-Q3, Curve EQ etc) to generate a reference curve.

Next, place a GEQ after the synth block on the Axe and set it to 5 band Mark type. Disable the GEQ on the amp. Move the sliders on the Axe-Fx 5 band GEQ until you match the reference curve. Plug those values into the GEQ in the amp block.

FWIW the 5 band GEQ measures differently on my studio preamp than my Mark IV at the same settings so I imagine an "authentic" 5 band GEQ would leave most people with the same issue of "I put the sliders where JP told me to and it's not identical".

 

[lastcaress83]

I'd hazard a guess that the difference has more to do with the difference in physical power sections than GEQ settings. I'd play with the amp block impedance curves though if I wanted to get a little closer. As @My name is mud said, while the "V shape EQ" is a handy trick on those amps to get going, there really is no substitute for trusting your ears.

This is the first time I recall seeing someone recommend altering the impedance curve by ear… brilliant advice. I was able to greatly improve the attack, response, and general chugness of the JP2C just by tweaking the impedance curve. Now it sounds and feels much closer to what I expect through my Marshall 1960a.

 

[Snouttrout]

If you have a neutral tube power amp, adjust the AFIII accordingly and try that. If not, try the AFIII JP2C as a preamp into your real JP2C power amp to see if you can pinpoint what exactly is off. I’m finding with my AFIII that nailing the interaction between power amp and your specific cabinet impedance is vital to replicating the sound of a tube amp. Have you found and set your cab’s resonant frequency?
Also, nailing the sound with your IR will require some compromises with the power amp/cab setup because you’ll presumably be using the settings in the amp block for FRFR. Maybe combining the AFIII speaker breakup, drive, compression, etc with your cabinet is contributing to your issues.

I just tried using the axefx as the preamp and the real amp as the power amp. I disabled the power amp modeling in the axe. THIS SOUNDS REALLY GOOD.

I have been using the impedance curve that most closely matches my cabinet. I had tried to find the resonant frequency, but I was never sure if it was correct. Maybe I should revisit that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Snouttrout]

That`s your problem...
I also used a Matrix and don`t like it. Tryed Mesa 20/20, Engl 830/50,Peavy Cassic 50/50 and ended with a Synergy 50/50 and be Happy since i baught it.

This might be the problem. I just used the real JP2C as the power amp, and I really liked the sound and feeling beneath my fingers. But I'm thinking I should try to nail the speaker impedance curve of my cabinet.

 

[Snouttrout]

There has been so much discussion on this point (including by me) that perhaps Cliff might consider just creating an "authentic" taper option for the Mesa 5 band eq based on the amp he modeled (I believe the amp was one of JP's personal amps). I get it - having an "authentic" version would psychologically make me feel better, as I could match the visual settings from pictures of the amp. It wouldn't ever sound exactly like the amp I was matching as there are too many other variables (not least of which is talent!) but would be cool nonetheless.

The problem might be my speaker impedance curve settings. I'm going to investigate that again.