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JP15 Tuning Stability

Andy Eagle

Experienced
The G and bass E are a little more random with the movement in the saddle. Then you have a sticky knife edge issue and you are conflating all of them.
John is talking about Jeff Beck in the first part and he means Jeff pulls up on the bar to bend the notes on the G far more than bending. Also he is saying that the G and E strings dislodge (sharp) and bending them makes them go back (flat if you retuned). I've had this conversation with John myself and he is defiantly saying the same as me.
 
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Andy Eagle

Experienced
If you have dull knife edges even a Floyd will need you to always bend the bar down(or up) after you finish to find its zero. The E G thing is separate and so is a sticky nut.
 

guitarnerdswe

Fractal Fanatic
The G and bass E are a little more random with the movement in the saddle. Then you have a sticky knife edge issue and you are conflating all of them.
John is talking about Jeff Beck in the first part and he means Jeff pulls up on the bar to bend the notes on the G far more than bending. Also he is saying that the G and E strings dislodge (sharp) and bending them makes them go back (flat if you retuned). I've had this conversation with John myself and he is defiantly saying the same as me.
I'm only talking about the E and g string slipping over the saddle ;) Doesn't matter if it was one of my Suhrs, Tylers, Music Man etc. They all went sharp when dive bombing. Brand new guitars, all of them, so no worn knife edges etc. I'm really anal about setups, and only let my trusted tech do things I can't (nuts and refrets). I do check for correct nut height, slot shape, and lube them. I sharpen my knife edges when needed.

Anyway, you describe this behaviour yourself with other words (dislodge). So I think you get what I mean. Even with a properly cut nut, sharp knife edges etc, there will still be notes going sharp after dive bombs due to lack of pressure over the saddles.
 
My G goes flat after a finger bend and a down flick on the bar brings it back. Pushing on the string behind the nut does nothing - only a bounce on the bar resets it.

The things that have helped the most are going to (2) springs in a V pattern and using the Eric Johnson tuning sequence - G D B A E E(low). I've also relieved a slight bit of tension on the treble side spring.

The guitar was built by EBMM ~8 weeks ago
 

guitarnerdswe

Fractal Fanatic
My G goes flat after a finger bend and a down flick on the bar brings it back. Pushing on the string behind the nut does nothing - only a bounce on the bar resets it.

The things that have helped the most are going to (2) springs in a V pattern and using the Eric Johnson tuning sequence - G D B A E E(low). I've also relieved a slight bit of tension on the treble side spring.

The guitar was built by EBMM ~8 weeks ago
Try what I've been going on about like a broken record: Pull up on the trem, then tune.
 

Andy Eagle

Experienced
My G goes flat after a finger bend and a down flick on the bar brings it back. Pushing on the string behind the nut does nothing - only a bounce on the bar resets it.

The things that have helped the most are going to (2) springs in a V pattern and using the Eric Johnson tuning sequence - G D B A E E(low). I've also relieved a slight bit of tension on the treble side spring.

The guitar was built by EBMM ~8 weeks ago
Angles on the claw do NOTHING to how the tension is distributed to the strings because of the rigid body of the trem.
 
I'm still fighting tuning issues, although not as bad as they were initially. I was hoping to bring this thread back to the top and ask any JP15/6 owners about their setup. String gage, number of springs (configuration too), bridge plate float (level, back end up, back end down), tuning sequence (order of strings when tuning), etc. Also, I've found that lowering the pivot post and raising string saddles makes a difference -higher string saddles require more spring tension to balance, at the expense of overall bridge travel.

Any feedback is appreciated
 

Andy Eagle

Experienced
Try setting the saddles low on the plate to mach the radius then set action with the body studs. Now float the plate parallel with the string plane. Make sure that the strings don't catch in the block and fall through to the anchor point freely. Lube the nut and make sure the string slots are clean and wide enough . String up with a maximum of one wrap around the tuner post . See how that works if all is well you should be fine unless you allow enough tension off for the E G to move in the saddle then your F%$£ed.
 
Update on JP15;

I ended up sending it back to the factory under warranty for the tuning problems. They agreed something wasn't right and replaced a lot parts trying to find the problem. Ultimately, they fixed it. My JP15 is now rock solid! It plays and sounds fantastic and tuning stability is excellent.

EBMM Customer Service has a great reputation and it's well deserved.
 

Harm

Inspired
Wauw. Great. I never understood why JP agreed with having guitars without double locking. In interviews you also hear that is wasn’t his choice. At G3 concerts he was the only one always tuning whenever he had a chance. I think the first contract expired so if I remember correctly there are new series that do have dual locking. I’d love to some day own a jp music man, but only with dual lock or a down only trem ( and even then).
 

jastylr

New Member
Update on JP15;

I ended up sending it back to the factory under warranty for the tuning problems. They agreed something wasn't right and replaced a lot parts trying to find the problem. Ultimately, they fixed it. My JP15 is now rock solid! It plays and sounds fantastic and tuning stability is excellent.

EBMM Customer Service has a great reputation and it's well deserved.

Hey there,

I just bought a new trans black JP15 6 and so far it has some of the worst tuning stability of any guitar I’ve owned. It goes out of tune with almost every few strums of a chord or short passages without even bending or using the trem. I already own another JP15 and it holds tune great.

Do you know what EBMM specifically found to be the problem when they fixed it for you? I haven’t gone through and tried anything myself yet or taken it to a tech but I may have to contact them as well. I may take it to my local luthier first to have him check it although it is under warranty so maybe sending it to EBMM may be better? I just don’t want to have to deal with shipping it to them and being without it for an extended period of time.

I do suspect there may be at least a nut problem because when I tune the B and High E strings I often hear the chinking sound of the string sticking. When I tune I’ll be almost at the right pitch and then all of a sudden it makes that sound and jumps flat or sharp depending on if I’m tuning up or down. Tapping on the trem makes that same string sound again and sometimes returns to tune or at least close to tune. I have some Big Bends Nut Sauce but haven’t tried it on this guitar yet but the nut may need some filing. It’s currently strung with the stock 10-46 strings it came with which I stretched pretty thoroughly after it arrived. I’d prefer to use a hybrid set of 9-46s and will probably change to those after I’ve played out the stock strings or if I end up taking it in for a setup.

I also question one or two of my locking tuners. The B string tuner specifically turns very easily and whether I’m just imagining or not, it seems to move on its own. I can tune it and the tuning button is in a specific rotation but when I go to tune it the next time it seems as if the button has moved slightly from where I last left it and the pitch is flat. I’m not sure if this is even possible and I’m just reaching in this case? Do I just tighten the screw that’s attached to the button?

Anyway, I’m glad you got yours sorted out. Hopefully I can do the same because I really do love the guitar overall but I can’t keep tuning every 5 seconds especially if I’m going to ever play it live.
 
Sorry you're having problems with tuning, it's frustrating.

When I received mine, I immediately changed to a 9 -42 string set. I adjusted the truss rod, reset the claw, and adjusted bridge for a nice low action (no buzz). I leveled the bridge setting it parallel and flush to the body surface. Tuning stability was much as you described, all over the place. One thing I noticed was that the tension on the bar was really light - a flutter tap on it gave a slow, wide effect. This was a clue but I didn't realize it at the time. (BTW, if you don't get the neck relief and string height in "harmony", the high E/B strings will choke out at the ~16th fret on a full step bend.)

I finally contacted EBMM customer service and they gave me a few things to try. LIGHTLY use 600-800 grit sand paper to clean up the nuts slots, 2 springs in V pattern, and lube the pivot posts/friction points. Tried everything they suggested with no real help. I finally decided to send it back to them under warranty.

They had it for about a week. They initially replaced the bridge, pivot posts, saddles, and selected tuners - still no help. They finally replaced the entire neck and that pretty much fixed it.

The rest of what write is my opinion and not anything they specifically told me. When I got the guitar back, the first thing I noticed was that the saddles on the bridge were raised significantly higher than before, while the bridge still floated level and flush with the body surface. The string action was still low with no buzz, too. The new neck looks thicker at the heel raising fingerboard "plane" and requiring the saddles be raised. Raising the saddles on the bridge plate increases the distance of the strings to the pivot post plane and requires more spring tension to balance at pitch. They also added the 3rd spring back to balance. The trem bar is much stiffer now, the tone is fuller, and most importantly the tuning is solid for a floating system. It's not as good as a double locking system, but it's good.

I tried raising the saddles before sending it back. But, that required me to lower the bridge plate deeper in the pocket to maintain string action. At that point, it lost a good amount travel and hit the pocket floor pretty quickly when using the bar.

After a week of heavy playing, it was now time for a restring. I replaced the strings with a regular EB 9-42 set (pink pack). Stability wasn't as good as before. I changed the strings again and used EB RPS 9-42 set - tuning stability was back. I've also noticed the more I play it, the better it gets

Hope this helps. Message me if you want more detail.
 

jastylr

New Member
Hey thanks so much for taking the time out to put together such a detailed response, I really appreciate it.

That’s really interesting about what you said EBMM did. At that point they should have just sent you another guitar altogether, lol! Since I last posted, I decided to go ahead and change my strings to 9-46s. I almost went 9-42 but I like the slightly beefier bottom end. I also adjusted the trem level, the truss rod and the action. It definitely feels better and after stretching the strings it seems to be holding tune a bit better than it did before but not necessarily great. I also used some nut sauce and the pinging sound I was getting before is gone so that along with the smaller gauge G B and E strings I’m using probably helped with that.

I’m going to keep playing on it for a bit and see how it settles in before I take the next step and either bring it to a luthier or send it back to EBMM. I still like the way my other JP plays so it’s obviously possible.

Thanks again for all your help and I’ll let you know if anything changes.
 
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