JMP pre new firmware

[BBN]

yeah, please do. the 1.5 ratio might be the ticket and it'll be interesting to find out.

So I spent some time with both the Axe and JMP1 side by side.
I ran them both into a solid state power amp (crown k2) to try and remove the color of a Tube Amp, and hear just what the pre-amp is producing.
(maybe that's a good idea, maybe it's not....don't know)

My short story is - the controls seem to work similar to the actual JMP1 (+3 = +3) on each device.
Side note - the default input Eq cut on the JMP1 is too much. I brought it back to (I think) 250htz, where as default is like 750htz. If I did not do this, it was nearly impossible to get the same low end to come out of the Axe, when compared to the original.

So here is the longer story - my JMP1 just sounds different than the one in the Axe.
My JMP1 settings are Gain at 18, Bass at +3, and every other setting is flat.
When I go for those same settings on the Axe, the top end is way different. (yes I turned the global power amp modeling off on the Axe).
I found that I had to cut a decent amount of Treble and Presence in the Axe, to make the high / high-mids, sound similar in the units.
I could not get it perfect. In order to get it perfect, I would need a Tone Match (quickest option) or an additional Eq block to get them sounding closer. I don't know why they don't sound the same, but I'm assuming Cliff's JMP1 and mine would also sound that 'different' from each other.

But if/when I get them 'close', the amount of 'change' when I turn an Eq knob on the Axe, seems to mirror the amount of change when I turn a knob on the JMP1.
At the end of my trial and error - I landed at +3 Bass (just like my JMP1) and I dropped Treble and Presence on the Axe to somewhere around -2, -3. That sounded close to my actual JMP1 with +3 Bass and Treble/Presence at 0.

I don't know if this info is useful to anyone. I walked away feeling a bit confused/frustrated because they don't sound the same. And also with a mindset of - just use the controls on the Axe to dial in a tone I like, and don't try to 'match the dials' between the two devices.

To wrap up, I played the JMP1 through my Marshall 100/100 power amp and it's just glorious. I will never sell that rig.

Also thinking - maybe I need a new power amp. I know Cliff was using a Crown K2 a few years back, so I figured it would suffice for my basement. Maybe I need to upgrade, to really get the Axe to mimic a tube power amp.

 

[mistermikev]

So I spent some time with both the Axe and JMP1 side by side.
I ran them both into a solid state power amp (crown k2) to try and remove the color of a Tube Amp, and hear just what the pre-amp is producing.
(maybe that's a good idea, maybe it's not....don't know)

My short story is - the controls seem to work similar to the actual JMP1 (+3 = +3) on each device.
Side note - the default input Eq cut on the JMP1 is too much. I brought it back to (I think) 250htz, where as default is like 750htz. If I did not do this, it was nearly impossible to get the same low end to come out of the Axe, when compared to the original.

So here is the longer story - my JMP1 just sounds different than the one in the Axe.
My JMP1 settings are Gain at 18, Bass at +3, and every other setting is flat.
When I go for those same settings on the Axe, the top end is way different. (yes I turned the global power amp modeling off on the Axe).
I found that I had to cut a decent amount of Treble and Presence in the Axe, to make the high / high-mids, sound similar in the units.
I could not get it perfect. In order to get it perfect, I would need a Tone Match (quickest option) or an additional Eq block to get them sounding closer. I don't know why they don't sound the same, but I'm assuming Cliff's JMP1 and mine would also sound that 'different' from each other.

But if/when I get them 'close', the amount of 'change' when I turn an Eq knob on the Axe, seems to mirror the amount of change when I turn a knob on the JMP1.
At the end of my trial and error - I landed at +3 Bass (just like my JMP1) and I dropped Treble and Presence on the Axe to somewhere around -2, -3. That sounded close to my actual JMP1 with +3 Bass and Treble/Presence at 0.

I don't know if this info is useful to anyone. I walked away feeling a bit confused/frustrated because they don't sound the same. And also with a mindset of - just use the controls on the Axe to dial in a tone I like, and don't try to 'match the dials' between the two devices.

To wrap up, I played the JMP1 through my Marshall 100/100 power amp and it's just glorious. I will never sell that rig.

Also thinking - maybe I need a new power amp. I know Cliff was using a Crown K2 a few years back, so I figured it would suffice for my basement. Maybe I need to upgrade, to really get the Axe to mimic a tube power amp.

well first off - thanks for so much depth. i appreciate it.

pardon me if I misunderstood, but when you are just running the axe fx with the jmp model on... you are simulating a power amp... whereas your jmp was going straight to your power/sepakers... the axe was not no? I suppose we could go and compare the power amp section of the jmp model to the tube pre and match all those settings to eliminate that variable... not sure it'd be all that worth it.

For the record I have a triaxis and it sounds quite a bit dif from the axe too... but I auditioned probably 20+ different tubes in my triaxis trying to optimize it for yellow/green since that is what I use most. it def changed the sound of my triaxis a lot. Just taking the long road to saying - I'm sure if you had two jmp1s right next to each other they'd sound dif.

afa sounding dif at noon... "What I didn't do, ... is "normalize" the tone controls so that with B/M/T at noon the tone stacks match. " that is a quote from cliff. Perhaps that has changed since a recent update or perhaps not.

for my own purposes... I use the factory presets as a way to get a wider look at the range of an amp then I might get if left to my own tweaking habits. it did that for me... caused me to go back to my other jmp1 presets and tweak a few of them closer to what I liked from the factory. If we wanted to zero in on a more similar sound maybe we'd have to apply an offset to some knobs and perhaps dial them back based on your/simeons contention that 3=3.

again, thank you everyone for your input.

 

[Michael R]

Since the last FW update I have been living on the JMP PRE amp. Absolutely loving it!
I am a long time user of the real deal. The EQ is very close now. I always ran mine with a BBE so in the AF3 by itself it doesn't get totally there but I found a work around. First, crank the power tube bias to around 70%. I also made an IR of the power amp section of my DSL JCM 2K 50 watter. I load this up in the IR Player Block and place between the Amp Block and Cab Block. Beefy! Like the real deal with a BBE.
Another thing to note if trying to copy the real deal is to take notice of which preamp tubes are in the real JMP-1 compared to the AF3 model.
If my memory serves me correctly, the V1 is for the clean channels and the V2 is for the OD channels. In my real JMP-1 I always used a Mullard for the V1-clean and a JJ for the V2-OD. I might very well sell my JMP-1 now. I can't believe I just said that!

 

[Michael R]

You are right on Simeon, if you are comparing just JMP1 preamp to preamp with the Axe, it holds true.
What gets a little funky is - the power amp you are using with your actual JMP1 vs. the power amp in the Axe.

(This is going to sound obvious to some, but just something to keep in mind when dialing in a JMP1 in the Axe)

I use my actual JMP-1 running through the Marshall 100/100 power amp (which I believe it is meant to be paired with).
It's a bright/raspy power amp (maybe even described as a little scooped IMO).
The power amp modelled in the Axe is a little darker, which means +4 treble on each is going to sound a little different (IF you are used to hearing the Marshall 100/100 poweramp with the JMP1).
I find that I use more treble and presence in the Axe to try and counter that darkness.
Yes, I know I can (and I do) tweak power amp settings in the Axe....just pointing out that sometimes +4 (for example) doesn't result in the same tone....thus if you are using settings in the JMP1 manual, it may not sound exactly as they would have when run through the Marshall power amp (that seems to have been what the JMP1 was meant to be paired with).

I would love for Cliff to take my Marshall 100/100 and have that used to model the JMP1 within the Axe.
@FractalAudio - I'm local to you if you want to borrow it

That would be cool if he also modeled the Voicing Switch of your 100/100.

 

[BBN]

well first off - thanks for so much depth. i appreciate it.

pardon me if I misunderstood, but when you are just running the axe fx with the jmp model on... you are simulating a power amp... whereas your jmp was going straight to your power/sepakers... the axe was not no? I suppose we could go and compare the power amp section of the jmp model to the tube pre and match all those settings to eliminate that variable... not sure it'd be all that worth it.

For the record I have a triaxis and it sounds quite a bit dif from the axe too... but I auditioned probably 20+ different tubes in my triaxis trying to optimize it for yellow/green since that is what I use most. it def changed the sound of my triaxis a lot. Just taking the long road to saying - I'm sure if you had two jmp1s right next to each other they'd sound dif.

afa sounding dif at noon... "What I didn't do, ... is "normalize" the tone controls so that with B/M/T at noon the tone stacks match. " that is a quote from cliff. Perhaps that has changed since a recent update or perhaps not.

for my own purposes... I use the factory presets as a way to get a wider look at the range of an amp then I might get if left to my own tweaking habits. it did that for me... caused me to go back to my other jmp1 presets and tweak a few of them closer to what I liked from the factory. If we wanted to zero in on a more similar sound maybe we'd have to apply an offset to some knobs and perhaps dial them back based on your/simeons contention that 3=3.

again, thank you everyone for your input.

I used both the JMP1 and the Axe into a SS Crown Power Amp.
I turned off the Power Amp modelling in the Axe, so both devices were sending just the JMP1 preamp into a clean power amp and cab.
My reasoning for this was to just compare the preamps EQ functions. I took out the tube power amp just to keep it basic/simple.

 

[BBN]

Since the last FW update I have been living on the JMP PRE amp. Absolutely loving it!
I am a long time user of the real deal. The EQ is very close now. I always ran mine with a BBE so in the AF3 by itself it doesn't get totally there but I found a work around. First, crank the power tube bias to around 70%. I also made an IR of the power amp section of my DSL JCM 2K 50 watter. I load this up in the IR Player Block and place between the Amp Block and Cab Block. Beefy! Like the real deal with a BBE.
Another thing to note if trying to copy the real deal is to take notice of which preamp tubes are in the real JMP-1 compared to the AF3 model.
If my memory serves me correctly, the V1 is for the clean channels and the V2 is for the OD channels. In my real JMP-1 I always used a Mullard for the V1-clean and a JJ for the V2-OD. I might very well sell my JMP-1 now. I can't believe I just said that!

That's not a bad point. I did not touch the tube settings in the Axe. I probably should - I think I put RCA 12AX7s in my JMP1.
Maybe I'll do that tomorrow (everything is still connected with an A/B box).

 

[mistermikev]

I used both the JMP1 and the Axe into a SS Crown Power Amp.
I turned off the Power Amp modelling in the Axe, so both devices were sending just the JMP1 preamp into a clean power amp and cab.
My reasoning for this was to just compare the preamps EQ functions. I took out the tube power amp just to keep it basic/simple.

ah, ok, didn't catch that part, thanks for clarification.

 

[waylander69]

Hi
This is a very interesting thread.
However I am confused ( doesn't take much )
Cliff says the tone stack on the authentic is tied to the output eq ( JMP 1 is a 4 band eq )
However I have some presets from before the FW was updated to this feature so after the FW update the "authentic" stayed at noon and the "ideal" stayed at the previous settings .

Where are you guys changing your B/M/T settings , in authentic or ideal tabs ?

I'm thinking I may be best off taking a note of the settings and re booting the amp block
then either starting from scratch or putting my b/m/t settings into "authentic" tab and leaving "idea"

Is anybody "fine tuning" the Output EQ , if so what band eq are you using

cheers
G \../

 

[mistermikev]

in mine... if you change the bmt in the auth tab... then go look at the output eq... it is actually changing those values. I think this was changed in recent update.

 

[Michael R]

From my understanding, before the update, the tone stack on the authentic tab was not accurate and was just a generic tone stack.
After the update, the tone stack is now accurate, but the real JMP-1 does not have an adjustable tone stack and it was actually a 5 band graphic EQ that you are adjusting. This is why Cliff has the authentic tab tone stack connected to the Output Tab 5 band Graphic EQ.

 

[waylander69]

Hi thanks for that guys ,
Think I'll have to reset the amp block as I'm not seeing any active link between authentic and output eq

So am I right in thinking peeps are changing b/m/t via the authentic tab ?

Cheers
G

 

[BBN]

Hi thanks for that guys ,
Think I'll have to reset the amp block as I'm not seeing any active link between authentic and output eq

So am I right in thinking peeps are changing b/m/t via the authentic tab ?

Cheers
G

I've had that experience. Do a reset and don't touch the ideal tab.

 

[volt]

Another JMP-1 fan here! Initiated by @BBN 's post I grabbed my trusty JMP-1 (ECC83 tubes) to check how accurately I could replicate its sound on an Axe-Fx III running firmware 19.08.

I already had a preset using the JMPre-1 OD2 model where I had recreated factory patch 004 "British Steel". Back than (on a firmware prior to 19.02) I recalculated the BMTP values from the JMP-1 for the Axe-Fx III with respect to the different dB ranges and found the JMPpre model pretty dead on to the original. The patch already had the output 3 block which I had used some time ago to compare my wha settings to a real world pedal.

So I connected output 3 of the the Axe-Fx to the input of the JMP-1 and the "Master" output of the JMP-1 (set to +4dB) to input 2 of the Axe-Fx. Guitar was connected to input 1 on the back of the Axe-Fx.

The JMPpre model (power amp modeling switched off) still sounded somewhat like the original, but by far not as close as I was remembering - regardless if I used 1:1 or recalculated settings from the factory preset. I had a similar experience like @BBN:

...

When I go for those same settings on the Axe, the top end is way different. (yes I turned the global power amp modeling off on the Axe).
I found that I had to cut a decent amount of Treble and Presence in the Axe, to make the high / high-mids, sound similar in the units.
I could not get it perfect.
...

After fiddling around with different settings without getting nearer, I went to check the noise gate of the output 3 block to be "off". This was already the case, but I discovered that the block's output level was set to +15dB which was probably a residue of my experiments with a wha pedal in the past...

After setting the ouptut level of the output 3 block to 0dB the JMPpre model was spot on to the original again now using 1:1 settings for BMTP and 1:2 settings for volume and gain values. So the key for me was to make sure the JMP-1 and the JMPpre model got the same input level.

Sorry for the lenghty post

 

[BBN]

After setting the ouptut level of the output 3 block to 0dB the JMPpre model was spot on to the original again now using 1:1 settings for BMTP and 1:2 settings for volume and gain values. So the key for me was to make sure the JMP-1 and the JMPpre model got the same input level.

Interesting findings.
I am plugging directly into the Axe and JMP-1 using an A/B Box.
So I'm not relying on the output level on the Axe to drive the input on my JMP1.

I wanted to keep my Axe and JMP1 'separate' (and not loop the JMP into the Axe signal chain).

I still need to try flipping the tubes around and seeing if it gets me closer.

 

[volt]

Since I have no A/B box I put the JMP-1 into the signal chain of the Axe-Fx in order to achieve fast switching between the original and the modelled amp using scenes.

Some hours ago I had the chance to do a quick test with the guitar connected to the input of the JMP-1. Its "Master" output was still connected to input 2 of the Axe-Fx as I use FRFR and have no real cab at hand.

Because of the time consuming unplugging/plugging of the guitar cable to the JMP-1 and then the Axe-Fx and vice versa I wouldn't consider the comparison as proper and reliable as with the method I used before. But my impression was that the JMPpre still matched the JMP-1's sound.

While I was playing around a little with the input 2 block's level of the Axe-Fx I found that this is an important parameter, too... which seems to be obvious because I use the cab simulation of the Axe-Fx. With the input 2 block's level not set so the signal from the JMP-1 fed into the Axe-Fx's cab model was equal to the signal from the JMPpre model the real and the modelled amp sounded different again - and I think that this was not just a loudness effect but the Axe-Fx's cab model reacting differently to different signal levels.

 

[aldo]

Hi everyone, I got the JMP-1 to use with an AX8. I'm not very familiar with what is the best way to connect it and how to insert it into the chain. Should I use the AX8 AMP block? Thanks everyone for the reply

Ciao a tutti, ho preso il JMP-1 da utilizzare con un AX8. Non ho molta familiarità con quale sia il modo migliore per collegarlo e come inserirlo nella catena. Dovrei usare il blocco AX8 AMP? Grazie a tutti per la risposta