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JCM 800 sounds a bit muddy with FW 6.0 tips?

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Really? Rips my head off here. I have to turn the presence way down. Check the MV. Too high and will get muddy.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
LOL.

I do it opposite and love it.

Drive at 3.50. Bass at 0.00. Mid/Treble/Presence all at 10.00. Bright at 0.00. Master Volume at 9.00. I low cut (advanced tab) at 80Hz.

Cab block is H75 (OH) + G12-65 FF (JM) panned center. Motor at 2.25. No mics.

Try that.

Here's what it sounds like here:

Hi-res FLAC format (download): 2012_04 V6 JCM800 Fractal.flac - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

OR crappy MP3 with all the life crushed out but a handy and cool player app ( ;) ):

 

boltrecords

Fractal Fanatic
Scott Peterson said:
LOL.

I do it opposite and love it.

Drive at 3.50. Bass at 0.00. Mid/Treble/Presence all at 10.00. Bright at 0.00. Master Volume at 9.00. I low cut (advanced tab) at 80Hz.

Cab block is H75 (OH) + G12-65 FF (JM) panned center. Motor at 2.25. No mics.

Try that.

Here's what it sounds like here:

Hi-res FLAC format (download): 2012_04 V6 JCM800 Fractal.flac - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

OR crappy MP3 with all the life crushed out but a handy and cool player app ( ;) ):

Just tried this. I love it. Real solid tone. I never would have brought myself to put the bass at zero and the mid and treb at 10. I gotta start using my ears.
What do you mean bright at zero? Is that the bright boost off?
Where do you typically set the dynamics? I noticed its now defaulted at zero
 

prog_head

Member
Mine is perfect right out of the box going through my Atomics... Just when it seems it is perfect... 6.0 comes out. What's next? Maybe a vacation for Cliff? :)
 

ZeeW

Inspired
LOL.

I do it opposite and love it.

Drive at 3.50. Bass at 0.00. Mid/Treble/Presence all at 10.00. Bright at 0.00. Master Volume at 9.00. I low cut (advanced tab) at 80Hz.

Cab block is H75 (OH) + G12-65 FF (JM) panned center. Motor at 2.25. No mics.

Try that.

Here's what it sounds like here:

Hi-res FLAC format (download): 2012_04 V6 JCM800 Fractal.flac - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

OR crappy MP3 with all the life crushed out but a handy and cool player app ( ;) ):

Scott - works a treat for me - thanks!
 

666was999

Power User
Just turning my bass down was very helpful. Thanks!
Maybe you have the volume of the ampblock too high and therefore overdriving the cabblock?
Check? Turn down at the ampblock and get back volume/turn up after the cabblock.
If lowering volume works, you can turn up the bass again.
 

backstone

New Member
Hi

There's another thing that puzzles me with the JCM 800 and the JCM 800 MOD.
I always try this one first, because I owned one in the Pre-Axe-times...
Crank the drive and master to about 8.5. Hit a powerchord (5th fret), and hit it hard. Let it ring until the end.
Do you hear that too?
Is that how the poweramp-sim should react or is there something not balanced out in the model?
 

boltrecords

Fractal Fanatic
I tried Scott petersons suggestion for this one, and its amazing.
Turn the bass to 0 the mids, treble and presence to 10. Master at 9, drive at 3.5.
Bright switch off.

I talked to my friend who has a jcm 800 and he basically said he ran the amp the same way ever since he got the amp.

This is for the jcm 800, not the 800 mod sim.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Just tried this. I love it. Real solid tone. I never would have brought myself to put the bass at zero and the mid and treb at 10. I gotta start using my ears.
What do you mean bright at zero? Is that the bright boost off?
Where do you typically set the dynamics? I noticed its now defaulted at zero
Bright switch OFF.
Boost OFF.

Dynamics are stock - 0% now. With the new modeling, zero need to even touch them.

IMHO
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Hi

There's another thing that puzzles me with the JCM 800 and the JCM 800 MOD.
I always try this one first, because I owned one in the Pre-Axe-times...
Crank the drive and master to about 8.5. Hit a powerchord (5th fret), and hit it hard. Let it ring until the end.
Do you hear that too?
Is that how the poweramp-sim should react or is there something not balanced out in the model?
My goodness, that'd sound HORRIBLE and there's no need to even try that to confirm it. If you did that with the actual amp, you'd get it to sound HORRIBLE. You owned the amp and ran it with the gain on 8.5? Honestly? With the master volume wide open? We'll have to disagree on it completely. I never would do that with a JCM800.
 

guitarmike

Experienced
Ive played and worked on dozens of jcm 800's (2204's, I have a permanent schematic diagram imprinted on my brain even though I quit working on them years ago) and I have never seen anybody run the real amp with the bass at zero and treble and presence at 10. Scott, did you run your real jcm 800's like that back in the day? By the way, your preset sounds great.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not implying anything derogatory. I just find it interesting. In my experience jcm 800's are very bright; many people remove the bright and/or peaking caps in the pre-amp to tame it out a bit. Even with the bright caps out you still typically see the treble at less than 50%. Although the master volumes were supposedly designed so that players could get distortion at lower volume levels, they definitely sound best with the master up and the power tubes sharing the distorting with the pre-amp (IMHO). So basically, my experience ( and years of it) in the realm of real jcm 800's master up, bass up, and watch that treble lest you put someones eye out!

Of course there are no rules; whatever works for you is right.
 

pjrs78

Member
LOL.

I do it opposite and love it.

Drive at 3.50. Bass at 0.00. Mid/Treble/Presence all at 10.00. Bright at 0.00. Master Volume at 9.00. I low cut (advanced tab) at 80Hz.

Cab block is H75 (OH) + G12-65 FF (JM) panned center. Motor at 2.25. No mics.

Try that.

Here's what it sounds like here:

Hi-res FLAC format (download): 2012_04 V6 JCM800 Fractal.flac - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

OR crappy MP3 with all the life crushed out but a handy and cool player app ( ;) ):

Cool. I like the preset as it is but this sounds great. It's always good to know what other settings work

Thank's
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Ive played and worked on dozens of jcm 800's (2204's, I have a permanent schematic diagram imprinted on my brain even though I quit working on them years ago) and I have never seen anybody run the real amp with the bass at zero and treble and presence at 10. Scott, did you run your real jcm 800's like that back in the day? By the way, your preset sounds great.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not implying anything derogatory. I just find it interesting. In my experience jcm 800's are very bright; many people remove the bright and/or peaking caps in the pre-amp to tame it out a bit. Even with the bright caps out you still typically see the treble at less than 50%. Although the master volumes were supposedly designed so that players could get distortion at lower volume levels, they definitely sound best with the master up and the power tubes sharing the distorting with the pre-amp (IMHO). So basically, my experience ( and years of it) in the realm of real jcm 800's master up, bass up, and watch that treble lest you put someones eye out!

Of course there are no rules; whatever works for you is right.
I had one in the early 90's that was all beat up, that's how I ran it and it sounded great. It was modded and I never delved into it to find out how it was modded... it was just too damn loud for me and I then found Rivera amps and ran with them throughout the 90's (TBR-1SL and TBR-2SL primarily; then the Rivera Knucklehead 100 and finally the Rake); but running the way I run has worked on every Axe-FX firmware from the Standard/Ultra v.3.xx to the II at 6.00c.

Trust your ears. :D
 

Scott.A.B

Member
Scott,
Thanks for the heads up on the 800 settings, this setup is amazing. These settings translated very well through my JBL 4228 monitors
Great job,

Scott
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Scott,
Thanks for the heads up on the 800 settings, this setup is amazing. These settings translated very well through my JBL 4228 monitors
Great job,

Scott
I've now setup an X/Y preset with one JCM800 the more 'traditional' way (master at 5, drive up around 6.50) and the other like a wide-open non-master (as outlined by me above). Very different, both very cool. X/Y means I can have both on one preset at the touch of a button (I setup one button on my MFC to do Amp/Cab X/Y simultaneously).

Win/Win. :D
 

johna156

Inspired
Yep, plexis and 800s work the best dimed with bass at (or close to) 0 and cranked mids, treble and presence. You get all the kerang without the flubbiness... And if you want more sizzle on the top end, you can just back off the master a bit.
 
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