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Jazz 120 amp level bug?

sebastos08

Veteran
it's seems to have a big difference on this default amp level of this amp now .

I don't know why and since how many versions FW has changed but it seems weird.

i'am under fw5b2 and on this dedicated amp preset, when i reset this amp block i need to increase its amp level to +9db to reach 0db on out1 block.

it's a default huge difference comparing to the other amp. On prevoius fw version this amp level was set near -9dB rather than +9dB

do you have the same difference on your side?
 

h.c.e.

Veteran
it's seems to have a big difference on this default amp level of this amp now .

I don't know why and since how many versions FW has changed but it seems weird.

i'am under fw5b2 and on this dedicated amp preset, when i reset this amp block i need to increase its amp level to +9db to reach 0db on out1 block.

it's a default huge difference comparing to the other amp. On prevoius fw version this amp level was set near -9dB rather than +9dB

do you have the same difference on your side?
Go to Advanced tab and set Master Volume to 10? Default for that amp has always been 3 (for whatever reason, which has always seemed odd to me, because I didn't think JC-120s have master volume knobs), so when you reset it probably went back there? I don't believe it show up on the new authentic controls tone tab (which, makes sense, cause, again, I don't think there's a MV on the 120). I've always just set the MV on that model to 10 as my starting point personally, because, yeah, it's suuuuuuper low output level with it's default 3 MV setting, only model I'd ever have to go to +Db Level settings if I didn't otherwise do that first.
 
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trancegodz

Forum Addict
I am not sure if it's a bug or not, but there are huge differences in the amp levels for a lot of the amps. I noticed this in the last couple of days when creating new presets for all of the Fender models. I had to set some at -6 and some at -18 or more. Not a problem as I was still easily able to create a great sound and match volumes for all the presets.
 

chris

Legend!
at Drive 2, MV 10, and Level -9, i get a full, completely clean sound that meters exactly on the level set line.

this amp just probably works like this with the latest amp modeling. i would suggest increasing the Master Volume - it doesn't seem to change the tone of this amp.

Screen Shot 2019-03-16 at 11.52.33 AM.png
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
this amp just probably works like this with the latest amp modeling. i would suggest increasing the Master Volume - it doesn't seem to change the tone of this amp.
It might meter the same, but there's a difference in tone. Here's a level matched sample of the Jazz model at default settings with MV set to 3.00 and the Level set to 13.8 for the first part of the clip, and MV set to 10.00 and Level set at default for the latter half.

LP using Neck Pickup:
 

chris

Legend!
It might meter the same, but there's a difference in tone. Here's a level matched sample of the Jazz model at default settings with MV set to 3.00 and the Level set to 13.8 for the first part of the clip, and MV set to 10.00 and Level set at default for the latter half.

LP using Neck Pickup:
i'm not experiencing that power amp distortion, so my comments are based on that.

of course, people need to try it themselves and judge what's best. i would still suggest increasing the Master Volume.

first clip is a bit louder, but i don't hear too much of a difference tone-wise, and i'm personally not getting any distortion at these settings.

 
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Jason Scott

Forum Addict
i'm not experiencing that power amp distortion, so my comments are based on that.

of course, people need to try it themselves and judge what's best. i would still suggest increasing the Master Volume.
Whether you hear a difference could potentially depend on your pickups or which pickup is selected, however if boosting MV produced an identical tone to simply increasing the Level, the clip with MV on 10 should not have produced any distortion... because the result would be identical. The only denominating factor between the two clips is the MV setting.
 

chris

Legend!
however if boosting MV produced an identical tone to simply increasing the Level, the clip with MV on 10 should not have produced any distortion... because the result would be identical.
and it didn't on mine. so that's what my comments are based on.
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
and it didn't on mine. so that's what my comments are based on.
Could be that your pickups don't expose the differences. I don't know. I just know that if the result is identical, there shouldn't be a difference. There is, and if the only difference is the MV setting, then I have to assume MV level is the denominating factor.
 

chris

Legend!
Could be that your pickups don't expose the differences. I don't know. I just know that if the result is identical, there shouldn't be a difference. There is, and if the only difference is the MV setting, then I have to assume MV level is the denominating factor.
If my pickups need to expose the differences, then the MV isn’t the only factor.

Funny thing is, we can both be correct here. It didn’t on mine. It did on yours.
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
If my pickups need to expose the differences, then the MV isn’t the only factor.

Funny thing is, we can both be correct here. It didn’t on mine. It did on yours.
Pickups aside, Cabs can also be a factor. Certain cabs apparently obviate the distortion. For example, I don't hear it when using Cab 129. Does that mean there's no difference because the Cab doesn't expose it? No.
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
i don't know man. i bet there's something else. we should be careful.
Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't make sense that something else would account for the difference if MV is the only parameter that was modified. Seems like basic troubleshooting 101. Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
 

chris

Legend!
Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't make sense that something else would account for the difference if MV is the only parameter that was modified. Seems like basic troubleshooting 101. Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
But you’ve already mentioned pickups and IR choices as possibly affecting it. I feel you’re saying 2 different things?

If I cranked up my MV to max and didn’t hear any distortion, how is that explained?
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
But you’ve already mentioned pickups and IR choices as possibly affecting it.
Affect in the sense of either masking or exposing said differences. For instance, let's say we're both listening to the same song from the mix position in our respective rooms and both of us turn up a parameter that provides an overall Level boost along with a 4 dB boost to 90 Hz. Assuming you had a room mode that produced a null at 90 Hz at the mix position in your room and I didn't, would you be able to hear the impact of that 90 Hz boost? No, and in fact from your perspective there would be no audible difference between simply cranking the Level control and boosting the aforementioned Level parameter with said 90 Hz boost. Thus, the null affects your ability to hear said boost, but it's not the denominating factor that determines whether an actual difference exists.
 
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