It's been an interesting run

Hey folks.

I've ignored a few members on this post now,and I won't be back here to answer questions or try to sort out some people's problems as it's a waste of my productive time. Suffice to say, I'll pretty much be regulating my posts to anything regarding the FX8 as it's the only piece of equipment I'll be using by Fractal anymore. For those of you that have found value in this thread I'm glad it was of some use to you.

For anybody who wants to sit here and argue semantics, pedantic BS, and carry on debating it, have at it. I'm done.

EDIT: I'll amend this to say if you have any positive or useful discussion I'll gladly continue discussing things with you. If you just want to argue I just went respond to you.
 
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Just keeping it real. I had also left this thread be but after hearing this...

Since posting this thread I've had guys contact me here and elsewhere asking about how, exactly, recording with load boxes works...

... I felt like there's a high risk of false information being told.

Tube amp + loadbox = not realistic.

If you want realism you can use a DI box inbetween your real amp and cabinet. This way you'll get the realistic impedance of the cabinet through the DI, however your cabinet will be just as loud as it needs to be to get the tube amp working for real. So as I said before:
it would be safer to say that the OP prefers the unauthentic sound of the loadbox he's using than the maybe even more realistic Axe-Fx modeling of a cabinet impedance curve.
 
How do you power that real cab? A tube amp? And you still have too much treble going on?
I use Axe FX into a matrix GT1000FX and that into a port city cab 2x12 (veteran 30 in combination with ET65).
no not too trebly...I rather tend to put too much bass in it, that I discovered already, yeah it was and still is a learning curve for me...... sometimes, hard to explain, but in the mix you kind of disappear.. especially with the higher gain stuff.....When you play alone its like a wall of sound but once in the mix it is not defined anymore....So adding MID to overcome the bassplayer might be good ...treble, my experience is that it is more tricky , might make it Harsh ...but for that you do the high cut ...I guess.So maybe I missed the secret sauce that makes it cut without being harsh.
 
The latest gen of reactive load boxes sound and feel great. A simple power soak with or without "speaker emulation EQ" is not the same as these newer load boxes.

I think "authentic" is maybe in the eyes and ears of the beholder when it is very close replica. But if it sounds great and feels great then "authentic" is moot to me.

http://www.suhr.com/amplifiers-for-electric-guitars/Reactive-Load/
I happen to think that in this case authenticity is one the only things that we can measure. Guitar + tube amp + guitar cab + mic = authentic. Everything else is something trying to sound authentic.

The OP is just an opinion without a sound sample which is 100% like me saying I don't like popcorn but I'm not going to let anyone else have a taste to make up their mind. You'll just have to trust me and if you question me you just want to "argue semantics and pedantic BS". Now... the OP said he had sound samples but didn't want to post them because "it's just a moot point by now". I'm going to ignore how that comes across but for him to think it's a "moot point" tells us what the agenda here is and it's not to give people information.

The fact is that reactive loads have impedance curve simulations and fewer options than the Axe-Fx. The problem here is that the OP strongly criticises the Axe-Fx by comparing it to something that is not authentic in the first place. People are getting misinformation. I don't care about who wins an arguement on a forum but I do care when someone is giving false information.
 
@ML SOUND LAB I see your point.

For me, there are other rigs that I play that are satisfying for me. If I am inspired, then I'm good and the authenticity is moot.

But being a huge guitar and amp geek, I do like to geek out on the science of it all :) When I'm performing, I go back to the right side of my brain and just want to be inspired.
 
@ML SOUND LAB I see your point.

For me, there are other rigs that I play that are satisfying for me. If I am inspired, then I'm good and the authenticity is moot.

But being a huge guitar and amp geek, I do like to geek out on the science of it all :) When I'm performing, I go back to the right side of my brain and just want to be inspired.
I agree. I have real amps and enjoy playing them as well. :) I still use real amps for shooting the IR's. That's mostly just my personal belief that the way a real tube amp drives a cabinet adds some mojo even though I can't measure a noticable difference after the power amp color removal.

Being able to enjoy something is a completely different thing for me as well. :) I've heard cool sounds from a Boss GT-10, 11Rack and old Line6 gear. None of that is even comparable to what we have now as far as realism goes but realism is not always the same as enjoyment. F.ex. Muse have some of the coolest distortion sounds going on and they notoriously used cheap modeling gear in the studio for many of those effects.
 
Interesting discussion....can you explain me what you mean with "treble extension"? or what do you think we might be doing wrong because that is sometimes the whole clue ...cutting through the mix... sometimes (certain patches) you do sometimes you don't, although separate they both sound very good..
By that, I mean treble content in your signal that reaches too high in the audio spectrum. Cutting through the mix better is usually about more mids and less bass/treble.


Sometimes I am still looking for the holy grail parameter that solves that one :). Treble is one of that parameters , be careful or it becomes harsh sounding....
High Cut in the cab block can work wonders.
 
By that, I mean treble content in your signal that reaches too high in the audio spectrum. Cutting through the mix better is usually about more mids and less bass/treble.

High Cut in the cab block can work wonders.

Last night I used my Xotic RC boost in front of the AxeFX and everything cut through better (like most real amps do with it). 1 o clock on the bass & treble... Going to try to dial those frequencies into the AxeFX during the week...
 
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Last night I used my Xotic RC boost in front of the AxeFX and everything cut through better (like most real amps do with it). 1 o clock on the bass & treble... Going to try to dial whatever that is into the AxeFX during the week...
A lot of drive pedals have a built-in high cut of less than 1 kHz. Than minimizes the amp's distortion products above 5 KHz or so, which serves to limit the treble frequencies coming out of the amp, which contributes to cutting through.
 
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The OP is just an opinion without a sound sample which is 100% like me saying I don't like popcorn but I'm not going to let anyone else have a taste to make up their mind. You'll just have to trust me and if you question me you just want to "argue semantics and pedantic BS". Now... the OP said he had sound samples but didn't want to post them because "it's just a moot point by now". I'm going to ignore how that comes across but for him to think it's a "moot point" tells us what the agenda here is and it's not to give people information.

The fact is that reactive loads have impedance curve simulations and fewer options than the Axe-Fx. The problem here is that the OP strongly criticises the Axe-Fx by comparing it to something that is not authentic in the first place. People are getting misinformation. I don't care about who wins an arguement on a forum but I do care when someone is giving false information.

Wow, I am really surprised by your response Mikko. It bothers me that you right off his personal experience as an "agenda". Listen, I love my AFX2 and wouldn't use anything else at this point, but it makes me think that if I ever had a similar experience and wanted to share it I would be written off as having an "agenda".
 
A lot of drive pedals have a built-in high cut of less than 1 kHz. Than minimizes the amp's distortion products above 5 KHz or so, which serves to limit the treble frequencies coming out of the amp, which contributes to cutting through.
Ok, I didn't know that, thanks. Would also back up what you were saying about boosting mids for cut so. I used to use the RC always-on (well at least 80% of the time) with my real boogie and it appears to affect the AxeFX in the same way. Very pleased with that, even better if I can manage to just dial it in and leave the pedal at home now!
 
Wow, I am really surprised by your response Mikko. It bothers me that you right off his personal experience as an "agenda". Listen, I love my AFX2 and wouldn't use anything else at this point, but it makes me think that if I ever had a similar experience and wanted to share it I would be written off as having an "agenda".
I didn't mean to say that someone has an agenda here. Just saying that the agenda does not seem to be to give people information but instead give people an opinion which some people may misunderstand as fact.

EDIT: I'll use myself as an example. When I first went back to real amps I posted clips with the real amp and what I was getting with the Axe-Fx and even Cliff himself chimed in to try and help me out and we got closer and actually that kind of feedback and information has made it's way to the official firmware. I'm not sure if you people remember Irotlas from these forums but he's the guy I run the studio with. He posted Dual Recto vs Axe-Fx clips that supposedly gave Cliff the idea for MIMIC.

That's IMO a good example of a positive agenda.
 
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I didn't mean to say that someone has an agenda here. Just saying that the agenda does not seem to be to give people information but instead give people an opinion which some people may misunderstand as fact.
Every opinion can be misconstrued as fact, you will burn yourself out trying to correct everyone. Every opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, including your's and mine. If people cant figure that out for themselves than they are lost at sea anyway.
 
Every opinion can be misconstrued as fact, you will burn yourself out trying to correct everyone

True, but it doesn't mean one shouldn't ever try.

It's quite easy to get caught by the idea that reactive loadboxes behave exactly like speakers, and it's not trivial to find out it's not true unless somebody tells you it isn't.

When it comes to amps, it's difficult to be objective as there are next to zero useful specs to look at. But there are still facts, and the more people know about them the better.
 
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The OP is just an opinion without a sound sample which is 100% like me saying I don't like popcorn but I'm not going to let anyone else have a taste to make up their mind.

Hi Mikko. To be fair, any time some says they prefer one thing over another, they are stating an opinion. The OP isn't stating a fact, just his preference.

The fact is that reactive loads have impedance curve simulations and fewer options than the Axe-Fx. The problem here is that the OP strongly criticises the Axe-Fx by comparing it to something that is not authentic in the first place. People are getting misinformation. I don't care about who wins an arguement on a forum but I do care when someone is giving false information.

The OP stated a clear preference for the sound of the Power Station and real amp. I don't find that to be false information -- just an opinion.

I think I have been overly sensitive in the past when I confused someone else's preference as a judgement on something I liked, or something I had created. For instance, I got into a big argument on YouTube when some guy said he thought he his HBE sounded better than the Axe Fx version. I should have understood that what he was saying was that he preferred this other thing, and was not saying that my thing was crap. I deleted all the comments in a huff, and afterwards I stepped back and realized I was being a dumbass.

I'm glad the OP found something cool and something that works for them, and happy that there's a discussion about it that also includes other fractal products such as the FX8 -- a box that I hadn't given much thought to until now.
 
True, but it doesn't mean one shouldn't ever try.

It's quite easy to get caught by the idea that reactive loadboxes behave exactly like speakers, and it's not trivial to find out it's not true unless somebody tells you it isn't.

When it comes to amps, it's difficult to be objective as there are next to zero useful specs to look at. But there are still facts, and the more people know about them the better.

Fair enough. Actually wait, no... If someone has a brain and can use it to think for themselves its not easy to get caught by the idea of a loadbox because researching the limitations of loadboxes is not difficult or even that time consuming. Lets not act as if Spec is being "dishonest" by preferring a real amp and a load box over the AFX2. And lets not pretend he is even trying to sway the herd here to the real amp side or loadbox side or 4CM side or whatever.

If I am being perfectly honest, in my very humble personal opinion, you have really only participated in this thread to antagonize the OP. Your other contributions have either been personal opinions or little additions like cut the highs, bump the mids. But 90% of your posts have been asking the same silly question over and over. Spec also never stated that loadboxes were "better", just that he was preferring his current situation. Normally I try to be diplomatic on this forum, but this thread has literally gone full retard.
 
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