Issues dialing in good metal guitar tone

O1111

Member
Hey guys, so i've been tinkering a lot with my Axe Fx 2 and I seem to be making some improvement on figuring out how to dial in good metal guitar tones. I know "good tone" is subjective, but I was just looking for some general guidance and other hidden gems of knowledge from more advanced Axe FX 2 users. So far, my current method involves just a simple Amp-> cab block, with whatever effects I desire. For cabinets, I usually have them set in stereo and I just scroll through different speaker and mic setups to find the tone I want.
However, I had some questions:

Is it ever recommended to use two amp heads?
Also, is it better to use a mono cabinet or even dual mono cabinet set up as opposed to one stereo cab setup?

A third thing that I was looking for some guidance on was the more advanced amp and cab settings. I currently just mess with the good old basic treble, mids, bass, presence, etc. settings on my amp head, and for cabinets I just change up speakers and mics. However, I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some of the essential advanced settings (frequency cutoffs, power damping, and other stuff) that I should be messing around with for dialing tone.

These are the questions I can think of at the moment. If anything comes up i'll be sure to post them here. If anyone could help me out it would be very much appreciated.
 
So every amp model is different, which sounds like a "no shit..." comment, but what I really mean is the knobs behave differently for every amp. I think one of the key things to experiment with is the Master Volume. In regards to high-gain amps, some amps love having the Master Volume really high (Marshalls, generally) while others sound better with the Master Volume very low (Mesa-Boogie/Rectifiers). I find that this parameter makes a huge change in the tone and how the Bass/Mid/Treble/Presence knobs react with each other. This is where I do 99% of my tone shaping in the Amp Block. I'll occasionally mess around with the EQ tab post-Power Amp, but that's it. I almost never mess with the advanced settings unless I'm just fucking around for fun.

For the cab block, Low Pass and High Pass are your friend. Depending on the IR I'm using, I'll set my Low Pass knob somewhere between 7500k - 10k. with the -6dB slope. For the High Pass, I set it depending on where I'm playing. If I'm jamming on studio monitors at home, I tend to set this fairly high (120 - 200hz), but if I'm playing live I set it around 75 - 100hz to let more of the thump get through.
 
So every amp model is different, which sounds like a "no shit..." comment, but what I really mean is the knobs behave differently for every amp. I think one of the key things to experiment with is the Master Volume. In regards to high-gain amps, some amps love having the Master Volume really high (Marshalls, generally) while others sound better with the Master Volume very low (Mesa-Boogie/Rectifiers). I find that this parameter makes a huge change in the tone and how the Bass/Mid/Treble/Presence knobs react with each other. This is where I do 99% of my tone shaping in the Amp Block. I'll occasionally mess around with the EQ tab post-Power Amp, but that's it. I almost never mess with the advanced settings unless I'm just fucking around for fun.

For the cab block, Low Pass and High Pass are your friend. Depending on the IR I'm using, I'll set my Low Pass knob somewhere between 7500k - 10k. with the -6dB slope. For the High Pass, I set it depending on where I'm playing. If I'm jamming on studio monitors at home, I tend to set this fairly high (120 - 200hz), but if I'm playing live I set it around 75 - 100hz to let more of the thump get through.

I really appreciate the help man! I'm not at my computer at the moment but you're talking in regards to the Master volume on the amp right? Not the level (on the far right). By the way, I usually keep the level at around -13 Db, is that appropriate? I'm assuming I use the level on the far right to turn my amp down so I don't clip?

Also, I just wanted to plug another question. I can't seem to figure out how to set my noisegate properly. It seems to completely kill my tone and make it sound all stuttery and farty.
 
I really appreciate the help man! I'm not at my computer at the moment but you're talking in regards to the Master volume on the amp right? Not the level (on the far right). By the way, I usually keep the level at around -13 Db, is that appropriate? I'm assuming I use the level on the far right to turn my amp down so I don't clip?

Also, I just wanted to plug another question. I can't seem to figure out how to set my noisegate properly. It seems to completely kill my tone and make it sound all stuttery and farty.
Yes, the Master Volume on the amp, not the Level knob. The Master Volume makes a huge difference in tone because it introduces power amp distortion, which has drastically different characteristics between amps.

The Level knob should be set so that nothing is clipping. There is no "correct" value I can tell you. I suggest going to the VU Meters (UTILITY button > VU tab), turning the A knob (for Amp1 Level) or B knob (Amp2 level) while playing guitar, and set it so that the meter is hovering around the 0 dB line. This is the best way to set the Level knob for the amp block.

For the noise gate, try setting the release to a higher value, like 20ms. Setting it to the minimum value (I think that's 5ms?) will make your sound crackle and farty when the gate starts closing. Maybe set your threshold and ratio to lower values? Again, no "correct" values here. You just have to play around with it and get it right.
 
Whenever I'm setting up a new patch from scratch, I always pick an amp that gets me in the ballpark of the tone that I have in my head. I'll then audition ALL of my cabs (or a specific set if I know how they will sound) blindly and stop when something pleases my ear. I'll write that cab down on paper and continue to audition until I've gone through them all. I then refine my cab selection down from there. When I feel I have the best cab available, I'll take the 2nd place cab and put it in the "Stereo" cab block for a nice full sound, as I always run stereo anyways. Only then do I begin to apply High/Low pass filters, and then tweak the amp knobs.

Have fun storming the castle!
 
I really appreciate the help man! I'm not at my computer at the moment but you're talking in regards to the Master volume on the amp right? Not the level (on the far right). By the way, I usually keep the level at around -13 Db, is that appropriate? I'm assuming I use the level on the far right to turn my amp down so I don't clip?

Also, I just wanted to plug another question. I can't seem to figure out how to set my noisegate properly. It seems to completely kill my tone and make it sound all stuttery and farty.
Yes, he is referring to the Master volume. The level can vary somewhat from amp to amp and depending on how high you set the master on any given amp and you are correct, it is to set the actual output of the block to avoid clipping.

There are a few other things I consider in my high gain patches.
  1. Don't use any more gain than you really need to make the point. This varies with style some, but a lot of people think you need to get the pre-gain up to 1 or 2 o'clock and with a lot of these amps that is actually going to turn to mush.
  2. I tend to run my gain on the amp pretty low and tighten up the amp by boosting it with a Drive block before. On the Drive I also set the level low (most of the time), but crank the level to hit the virtual amp input harder.
  3. Some like to use the Cut switch on the first amp tab in Axe-Edit. It seems to tighten up the low-end, and you can EQ some of that back with the EQ tab. (Similar to adding a drive block before the amp, which is the way I prefer.)
  4. Getting into some advanced techniques that I use... ignore this one if it seems like overkill. :) I like the master in general lower for my rhythm tone and higher for my leads. This has a few different effects with most amps, as it seems to compress things a bit more and add a little thickness to the tone as well. The way I do this is using scene controllers. Scene 1 will be rhythm tone with the value I want for Master Volume low and Level control set to balance properly. Scene 2 may be the same amp with the Master Volume up a bit and Level set for that balance of overall volume I want for the lead tone. (Scene 2 also kicks in the delay which I like for leads).
  5. Related to #4 above, I'll sometimes attach scene controllers to either the bright switch or saturation switches and set them up according to how I want to manipulate them from scene to scene. It's a little hard to understand reading about, but within the Axe-Edit interface it is fairly easy.
Good luck in your quest. Until you get familiar with things, stick to 1-3 and some of the tips others have shared, but once you dig deeper this thing does some really cool stuff.
 
1) Use low-cut before the amp, either through a drive pedal or the Cut switch. If it sounds too anaemic, add some back in with the post-gain EQ within the amp block.
2) Boost mids before the gain - this is why a drive pedal works so well.
3) Less gain.
4) Lower the Master Volume knob. Compensate with the Level knob.
5) If you still can't get anywhere, use FAS Modern. It is the sound of modern high gain.
6) Consider using a sharp, scooped amp like the Engl Savage or the 5150, with scooped settings... and a second amp with a less scooped and lower gain sound, like a Diezel.
7) For a typical metal tone don't bother looking beyond the Mesa cabs. Mesa 4x12, done.
 
Just do a tonematch of a tone that's close to what you're after. Import the user cab TM then tweak the patch to taste
 
Allow me to assist as i had to spend a year with my first Axe II to get a good metal tone.
#1 The amp model "in my opinion there are those that lend themselves well to metal tone. I will list them in order of best and worst.
FAS MODERN "the Mesa Recto with everything annoying about the real thing fixed by the Fractal Team" ROFL
DAS METAL " A bit crispy crunchy and can sound thin without the right EQ
FRIEDMAN HBE "a bit boomy and bass heavy until you do stuff to Brighten it up"

Amp Settings, for example FAS MODERN
Drive should never go above 3. keep it tight as a frog's arsehole.
Bass Down a bit, Mids up a bit. Treble noon, Pres, up a bit to taste. Master volume between 2 and 4 for tight metal tone.

Ask me bout the other amps if you are curious what i do to em.

Drive Pedal: I use "Super OD" (based on BOSS SD-1 SuperOverDrive).
Most would tell you 808 mod or 808 which are the tube screamers. Problem is, they add more noise but they still sound good.
I just prefer drives that are super quiet and add less hiss. BTW the Boss pedal uses more DSP than the screamers for some reason.
Stay clear of RAT distortions and METAL Distortions, use drives' not distortions.

Drive: turn that s&*t down to zero!
Tone: from noon to 2 o clock
High cut and low cut: i dont touch much, "I do a low cut in the cab block "more on that later ;)

Do not use 2 amps at once, unless you turn off power amp on one of them. I have never gotten good results with two amps at once.
One good amp is good enough for a tight metal tone.
Turn off the input gate and use a gate block, I use two of them.
Use a compressor in the chain and experiment with the settings. My chain is.
Compressor / Gate / Drive / Gate / Amp / Cab/ Effects if its a lead patch.

Lastly but not leastly : THE CABINET AND THE CABINET SETTINGS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOU MY BROTHER!!!!!!!

Buy cab packs if you got some money.
I can recommend 3 packs I use all from our good friend Clark Kent.
Cab Pack 13 "a classic"
BULB ZILLA Cab Pack "I use this one the most"
Cab Pack 19 " also very good.
Not to mention Clark Kent just released a free one that he calls "The Best IR In The World" Hey He aint exactly lying.

If you use stereo cab. the quality goes down "no ultra res" but saves DSP power.
If you want to blend 2 cabs, Pick 2. Sometimes I blend cabs.

Whatever cab you choose, move the low cut to around 85. That should take out some of the flubbyness.

Between you and me and i guess whoever else reads this. I think the best cab is from the Axe FX1.
It was an engl but was later known as the "METAL 4x12" Someone converted it to Axe II format. That is my go to cab if im only using one. I can email it to you if you cant find it.
"Hint. One of the cab settings is "Cabinet size" Bigger is sometimes better, even with cabs "LOL" I push it a few clicks to the right, not quite at 1 o clock, but plus .01 or so. again. Use that looper function to have your riff play while you change parameters hands free.

Now the cab settings. Click the tabs and dig deeper. Turn up the room a bit. Turn up the AIR. not so much air the frequency.
also, back the mic away from the virtual speaker. Let the looper play. as it plays, move the mic away from the speaker to find the sweet spot. This gives more of a real feel deal. IMHO

If all this fails you. I can send you one of my patches for you to see the settings and you can tweak to taste.

Hey, I hope this helps you, and if it does please share it. Many have helped the Phantom and Phantom likes to give back to the community.

Please let me know how this turns out.

Wishing you the best,

Happy Tweaking,
Phantomofalfred.
 
Hey, bub! Great tips. I use the Friedman 2018 C45 in my band for live use. I’m very curious how you suggest to have the settings done for a Friedman patch.

Cheers,
Dylan
 
Allow me to assist as i had to spend a year with my first Axe II to get a good metal tone.
#1 The amp model "in my opinion there are those that lend themselves well to metal tone. I will list them in order of best and worst.
FAS MODERN "the Mesa Recto with everything annoying about the real thing fixed by the Fractal Team" ROFL
DAS METAL " A bit crispy crunchy and can sound thin without the right EQ
FRIEDMAN HBE "a bit boomy and bass heavy until you do stuff to Brighten it up"

Amp Settings, for example FAS MODERN
Drive should never go above 3. keep it tight as a frog's arsehole.
Bass Down a bit, Mids up a bit. Treble noon, Pres, up a bit to taste. Master volume between 2 and 4 for tight metal tone.

Ask me bout the other amps if you are curious what i do to em.

Drive Pedal: I use "Super OD" (based on BOSS SD-1 SuperOverDrive).
Most would tell you 808 mod or 808 which are the tube screamers. Problem is, they add more noise but they still sound good.
I just prefer drives that are super quiet and add less hiss. BTW the Boss pedal uses more DSP than the screamers for some reason.
Stay clear of RAT distortions and METAL Distortions, use drives' not distortions.

Drive: turn that s&*t down to zero!
Tone: from noon to 2 o clock
High cut and low cut: i dont touch much, "I do a low cut in the cab block "more on that later ;)

Do not use 2 amps at once, unless you turn off power amp on one of them. I have never gotten good results with two amps at once.
One good amp is good enough for a tight metal tone.
Turn off the input gate and use a gate block, I use two of them.
Use a compressor in the chain and experiment with the settings. My chain is.
Compressor / Gate / Drive / Gate / Amp / Cab/ Effects if its a lead patch.

Lastly but not leastly : THE CABINET AND THE CABINET SETTINGS WILL MAKE OR BREAK YOU MY BROTHER!!!!!!!

Buy cab packs if you got some money.
I can recommend 3 packs I use all from our good friend Clark Kent.
Cab Pack 13 "a classic"
BULB ZILLA Cab Pack "I use this one the most"
Cab Pack 19 " also very good.
Not to mention Clark Kent just released a free one that he calls "The Best IR In The World" Hey He aint exactly lying.

If you use stereo cab. the quality goes down "no ultra res" but saves DSP power.
If you want to blend 2 cabs, Pick 2. Sometimes I blend cabs.

Whatever cab you choose, move the low cut to around 85. That should take out some of the flubbyness.

Between you and me and i guess whoever else reads this. I think the best cab is from the Axe FX1.
It was an engl but was later known as the "METAL 4x12" Someone converted it to Axe II format. That is my go to cab if im only using one. I can email it to you if you cant find it.
"Hint. One of the cab settings is "Cabinet size" Bigger is sometimes better, even with cabs "LOL" I push it a few clicks to the right, not quite at 1 o clock, but plus .01 or so. again. Use that looper function to have your riff play while you change parameters hands free.

Now the cab settings. Click the tabs and dig deeper. Turn up the room a bit. Turn up the AIR. not so much air the frequency.
also, back the mic away from the virtual speaker. Let the looper play. as it plays, move the mic away from the speaker to find the sweet spot. This gives more of a real feel deal. IMHO

If all this fails you. I can send you one of my patches for you to see the settings and you can tweak to taste.

Hey, I hope this helps you, and if it does please share it. Many have helped the Phantom and Phantom likes to give back to the community.

Please let me know how this turns out.

Wishing you the best,

Happy Tweaking,
Phantomofalfred.

This guide is the best I've found. Killer tone! Thank you, Phantom!
 
Don't go to deep settings until you've started with the right IR. I find an IR of the amp you'd normally use in 'real life' typically works well. Sometimes a totally atypical cab works great too.

Go to amp EQ and get as close as you can. Honestly you should be able to get to what you want after this step. Set your level at typical loudness, start with the Master low and bring it up until the character changes for the worst, mushy and undefined, back off a bit and you're good.

I don't think gates are necessary personally. To me that just means you're using too much gain

Beyond what I've mentioned, if you still don't have it, the tips above are all good. But leave them for the final tweaks.

One tip I would add is the mic preamps in the cab block. They can really add some nice tubey punch. Use 'Tube' and up the mids a tad, or a lot...
 
I guess... I can play on the Diezel, Engl etc models and I never use one. I don't play djenty stuff … 'metal' is a wide open term.
 
Back
Top Bottom