is there much a difference between using scenes vs presets?

Georgy

Georgy

Inspired
Hey guys,

As in, is there much of a difference (lag, I guess) when changing presets vs changing scenes? We know that scenes are seemless and 'quicker' or smoother than changing patches so to speak, but if so, is it that big difference? Curious to know if the same applies when changing channels on your amp? Is it relatively quick or is it noticeably audible?

I think I'll need to start experimenting with presets/normal patches first just to get my head around using an FX8 after using the Axe-ii for nearly 2 yrs now, so I'll need to make a few adjustments, but I guess my ultimate goal is to use scenes.

How do you guys find it?
 
Georgy said:
Hey guys,

As in, is there much of a difference (lag, I guess) when changing presets vs changing scenes? We know that scenes are seemless and 'quicker' or smoother than changing patches so to speak, but if so, is it that big difference? Curious to know if the same applies when changing channels on your amp? Is it relatively quick or is it noticeably audible?

I think I'll need to start experimenting with presets/normal patches first just to get my head around using an FX8 after using the Axe-ii for nearly 2 yrs now, so I'll need to make a few adjustments, but I guess my ultimate goal is to use scenes.

How do you guys find it?
Click to expand...

I use a preset per song, and scenes for different sounds within a song.

the amp channel switching is seamless on the FX8 end, although I've found that older amps are sometimes a little bit louder about it than newer amps.

am curious tho, since the AXE-II has had scenes for years, and your'e been using it for 2 years, what's there to get used to?
 
flying_walrus said:
I use a preset per song, and scenes for different sounds within a song.

the amp channel switching is seamless on the FX8 end, although I've found that older amps are sometimes a little bit louder about it than newer amps.

am curious tho, since the AXE-II has had scenes for years, and your'e been using it for 2 years, what's there to get used to?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input mate, appreciate it.

I'm a creature of habit.. The way I use scenes via the Axe-ii is in 4CM with my EVH amp head (50w to be exact). I actually don't even use the tones from the EVH, I'm basically using it as a power amp. From what I can understand, the scenes 'process' on the FX8 is a little different to how I use scenes with my Axe-ii. I basically use 1 patch per song with scenes within that patch. Some songs might have only 2 scenes, some others can be 4 or 5 scenes. My MFC has 5 buttons acaross the bottom which I use for scenes, which I can't quite use the same way on the FX8 (FX8 has 4 buttons on the bottom row... not that that specifically matters.. it's more a layout-kinda-thing for me!)

With that said, on one song for example, I have 4 different amp settings (where the gain progressively gets turned up, or stronger as I go from button to button, or scene to scene). I only use the HBE amp, and they have slightly different settings per X/Y states, which basically allows me to have 4 different settings for this same amp, with vairous FX being used here and there. Not sure if that makes sense to you or not, but that's essentially how I use my Axe-ii with scenes with my MFC................................ I know I won't quite be able to use it the same way as the Axe-ii setup but it'll be a good learning curve..

Not sure if that answers your question! :po_O
 
Scenes on the FX8 work the same as Scenes on the Axe II. Your experience with one will translate to the other.

Is it "quicker enough" to make a difference? That depends on how you use it. Try scenes, and you'll soon learn whether they work for the way you use it.
 
Rex said:
Scenes on the FX8 work the same as Scenes on the Axe II. Your experience with one will translate to the other.

Is it "quicker enough" to make a difference? That depends on how you use it. Try scenes, and you'll soon learn whether they work for the way you use it.
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Cool, thanks man.

Can I ask, when you use scenes, have you configured it so that when you change from say, Scene 1 to Scene 2, it changes not only the FX from scene to scene button does it also change your amp's channels, from say clean to overdrive etc? And if so, is it seamless so to speak?!
 
Georgy said:
Cool, thanks man.

Can I ask, when you use scenes, have you configured it so that when you change from say, Scene 1 to Scene 2, it changes not only the FX from scene to scene button does it also change your amp's channels, from say clean to overdrive etc? And if so, is it seamless so to speak?!
Click to expand...

on the fx8 end it's perfectly seamless. when i was using an older amp (80s studio 22+) the amp would sometimes pop on channel switching, but my new amps (mark 5:25s) are very quiet during channel changes.
 
A lot of the world-touring artists I work with use preset changes during songs.
 
Scenes only allow you to change a limited number of things. Preset changes have no such limits, but they come at the cost of an audio dropout.

Preset changes cause the effects blocks to completely reset and new block algorithms and settings are loaded. That causes the short audio gap you hear.

Scene changes cause one of two things mainly, block bypass state changes or block X/Y state changes. Bypass state changes redirect the audio path but do not reset the block, so they are completely seamless. X/Y state changes on the other hand do cause a reset and an audio gap. If your scene changes only swap block bypass states, they will be seamless. If they include block X/Y changes, there will be a gap. Scene controller and level changes are parameter manipulations so no block reset is needed for those.

The length of the audio gap depends on what is getting reset. Preset changes reset all the blocks, so those will potentially have the longest gap. Scene change gaps will depend on which blocks and how many are getting reset for X/Y. Low CPU blocks will reset faster than high CPU blocks, so that is usually a decent indicator of which ones will take longer and therefore cause longer gaps when resetting. The difference is often very subtle. None of them cause an excessive gap that is any more noticeable than channel switching on a real amp. There are also methods for getting spillover of delay and reverb between preset and scene changes that can help to conceal the gap as well.

A lot of it is timing too. If you don't change presets while your strings are ringing, you won't notice a gap at all. If you try to change presets mid note or mid chord it will likely stick out like a sore thumb.
 
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Georgy said:
Cool, thanks man.

Can I ask, when you use scenes, have you configured it so that when you change from say, Scene 1 to Scene 2, it changes not only the FX from scene to scene button does it also change your amp's channels, from say clean to overdrive etc? And if so, is it seamless so to speak?!
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Yes. Stomp the scene, and the amp's channel changes NOW.
 
Rex said:
Yes. Stomp the scene, and the amp's channel changes NOW.
Click to expand...

Last question... which I think you may have answered.. Can I assign midi messages to scenes, so that it can change channels with scenes buttons on my amp?! IF SO, how hard is this to setup?!
 
Georgy said:
Last question... which I think you may have answered.. Can I assign midi messages to scenes, so that it can change channels with scenes buttons on my amp?! IF SO, how hard is this to setup?!
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Yes. You can send both a MIDI PC and CC message with each scene. In FX8-Edit, it's a breeze to set up.
 
Rex said:
Yes. You can send both a MIDI PC and CC message with each scene. In FX8-Edit, it's a breeze to set up.
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AAAAAWESOME!!!! I'm certainly not the quickest or sharpest tool in the shed, but if you say it's a breeze to setup via FX8-edit, I'll have a crack at it tonight. Just out of curiosity, what amp you using with it? I'm using the EVH 5153 50w, and I will also be using it with my custom made amp too, which will have midi..

Thanks again for your input.
 
Georgy said:
Just out of curiosity, what amp you using with it? I'm using the EVH 5153 50w, and I will also be using it with my custom made amp too, which will have midi.
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I use a Rocktron Voodu Valve and a Peavey Rockmaster preamp into a Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp, into a 2x12 cab my nephew built for me.
 
Nice. Thanks again for all your input. I'll try tonight... hopefully it won't be an all-nighter that will result me in rocking back and forth in the fetal position sucking my thumb!
 
Georgy said:
Nice. Thanks again for all your input. I'll try tonight... hopefully it won't be an all-nighter that will result me in rocking back and forth in the fetal position sucking my thumb!
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Hint:

In FX8-Edit, press the CONFIG button. A column of five buttons will appear on the lower half of the screen. Two of them are labeled MIDI PC and MIDI CC.

No fetal position for you. :)
 
Admin M@ said:
A lot of the world-touring artists I work with use preset changes during songs.
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Yes I also use preset changes because then I can give a preset a name which makes sense. Scenes are Always just S1,S2 etc. and I need to know if a preset is the intro,chorus, verse, bridge,solo or outro! Only plus from scenes is that the audiotransition is smoother than presets. Changing presets Always needs very good timing with the tapping or you will hear it during a song.
 
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