Is the IR Rabbit Hole worth it??

I would say no, the rabbithole isn't worth it. I spent too much money on IRs in the Axe-FX II days, got thousands of them to only use a couple. I got really tired of IR producers coming out with new versions of stuff they had already shot before because "this time I did it right, the old IRs don't sound good compared to the new stuff!" and then it's just another damn IR of Vintage 30s or Greenbacks in Mesa or Marshall cabinets – the last thing we need more IRs of! Then some of them started saying crazy shit like pickups don't matter and you should just buy more IRs to change your sound. 🙄

There's plenty of stock cabs that are fine to great. My gripe is I'd like to see more IR mixes instead of single mic stuff. IRs take a lot of CPU and using multiple IRs can take up processing power real quick. But you can make a mix in Cab Lab as a single IR and regain CPU that way. Searching stock IRs kinda sucks too; I wish they showed up as nested folders in the IR browser to make endless scrolling less painful.

Anyway, that's my two cents. YMMV
 
Randalljax said:
What are the 4 main amps you use and i can save you hours
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Great question. Thanks. :)

I am mainly a Marshall-esque guy at the moment--with a dabbling of some
Mesa Rectifier and JPC thrown in. Currently digging the stock Marshall Lynchback IRs
in the Cab Block. Running two of them. One a 57 capture and the other a Royer 121
capture. I think those are Ownhammer??

Also enjoying the Leon Todd IRs in the Axechange.
 
Mott said:
Prior to the Axe-III and FM3, the answer was a definite yes. I bought the RedWirez Big Box, Amp Factory Legacy and Studio Delta, several of the Fractal offerings, and got a bunch of Ownhammers by helping fund his startup (may still even have some credit--that was a great deal at the time!).

However, with the choices now in the factory banks which include a good number of IR's I had already purchased, I feel it is almost unnecessary. Except for the Yorks which are special. Bought several of his packs. Of the others, the only IR's I go to regularly not included in the factory banks are the ones from the Amp Factory.
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I have thousands of IRs from when I was using Line 6 and found so many duplicates with the factory cabs when I got the FM3 that I don't bother looking through my collection now. I just use Yek's cabinet list in the Wiki to see what's available then wander through the cab picker and try things.
 
PumpkinKing86 said:
Searching stock IRs kinda sucks too; I wish they showed up as nested folders in the IR browser to make endless scrolling less painful.
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Definitely. Having the ability to use a filter on various criteria such as cabinet type, speaker type, microphone type would help narrow things down quickly. Using the text filter is better than nothing usually, but sometimes the cab name doesn't have the text needed.
 
PumpkinKing86 said:
I would say no, the rabbithole isn't worth it. I spent too much money on IRs in the Axe-FX II days, got thousands of them to only use a couple. I got really tired of IR producers coming out with new versions of stuff they had already shot before because "this time I did it right, the old IRs don't sound good compared to the new stuff!" and then it's just another damn IR of Vintage 30s or Greenbacks in Mesa or Marshall cabinets – the last thing we need more IRs of! Then some of them started saying crazy shit like pickups don't matter and you should just buy more IRs to change your sound. 🙄

There's plenty of stock cabs that are fine to great. My gripe is I'd like to see more IR mixes instead of single mic stuff. IRs take a lot of CPU and using multiple IRs can take up processing power real quick. But you can make a mix in Cab Lab as a single IR and regain CPU that way. Searching stock IRs kinda sucks too; I wish they showed up as nested folders in the IR browser to make endless scrolling less painful.

Anyway, that's my two cents. YMMV
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I have a couple of questions about IRs. If they take up so much CPU then how come
the files you download from a vendor or Axechange are so small. Some are like 25kb.

Maybe I am sounding like an idiot, because I am and don't know the technical details,
but it seems to me that if IRs had such a huge impact on the end-game tone (more than
amp modeling, guitar used, tonewooods, pickups) then the files would actually include
a lot more data then they seem to.
 
la noise said:
I have a couple of questions about IRs. If they take up so much CPU then how come
the files you download from a vendor or Axechange are so small. Some are like 25kb.

Maybe I am sounding like an idiot, because I am and don't know the technical details,
but it seems to me that if IRs had such a huge impact on the end-game tone (more than
amp modeling, guitar used, tonewooods, pickups) then the files would actually include
a lot more data then they seem to.
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I don't have the technical knowledge to answer that question. I get where you're coming from though.
 
PumpkinKing86 said:
I don't have the technical knowledge to answer that question. I get where you're coming from though.
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I am just curious about all of this. :) And yeah, I don't get the "IR" is the most important part
of the tone chase argument either. It may be. That's why I am asking those who know more
than I do.

One of the things I love the most about the FM3 right now is how responsive it is to my choice
of guitar. I am getting dramatically different results in how much an amp model is driven or
how dark or bright it is based on the guitar I am inclined to use that day, and the pickups in that guitar.

Kind of like using actual amps and cabs, which is what I have done exclusively up until a few months ago.
I have a bit of knowledge about the impact microphone choice has, and blending mics. A 57 will never
sound like a 421 or 121 and stuff like that. :)
 
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It's not so much the size of the IR on disk, it has to do with the DSP having to loop through it continuously for every vibration of the sound being created to emulate the way the cabinet affects the sound. Increase the size, it takes more processing time to do it.

The IR captures how the cabinet resonates and the speaker cone flexes and how the microphone in its position captures those things, so that information is used to adjust the modeled sound.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impulse_responses_(IR)
 
la noise said:
IRs had such a huge impact on the end-game tone (more than
amp modeling, guitar used, tonewooods, pickups) then the files would actually include
a lot more data then they seem to.
Click to expand...
The sound being used to create an IR doesn't come from a guitar or instrument. It's a very short burst of sound in a very controlled environment that causes the cabinet and speaker to react to that sound. The microphone captures it then the sound stops before the walls, floor and ceiling have a chance to reflect the sound back and be captured.

We don't want the sound to contain the wood or guitar resonance or pickup response otherwise those would be added to whatever guitar you're using at the moment when playing. I picked my guitars specifically for their voices and don't want someone else's guitar affecting that.

Cliff wrote an interesting article the other day about how some IRs need to be redone because they captured the echos in the room, which is undesirable. He's trying to find a way to use software to identify them.
 
So…yes and no…I‘ve bought a few packs over the years but generally end up using what I would mike. I generally like mesa cab‘d v30’s with a 57 and 121 mix for distorted sounds. Cleans, I like typically like jangly AC 30 style alnico blues type IR’s. I am currently using the York Audio Mesa 412 v2 and the Matchless 212 IR’s. I used to sit there and try IR’s for hours. No more.

I do think there is value exploring IR’s that sound good and typically match with whatever amp you use. ie. if you play a rectifier then you probably like mesa cabs and will like the YA mesa IR’s etc.

​

 
Greg Ferguson said:
The sound being used to create an IR doesn't come from a guitar or instrument. It's a very short burst of sound in a very controlled environment that causes the cabinet and speaker to react to that sound. The microphone captures it then the sound stops before the walls, floor and ceiling have a chance to reflect the sound back and be captured.

We don't want the sound to contain the wood or guitar resonance or pickup response otherwise those would be added to whatever guitar you're using at the moment when playing. I picked my guitars specifically for their voices and don't want someone else's guitar affecting that.

Cliff wrote an interesting article the other day about how some IRs need to be redone because they captured the echos in the room, which is undesirable. He's trying to find a way to use software to identify them.
Click to expand...

The sampling/drum trigger analogy makes perfect sense in that article you linked above.
 
la noise said:
Great question. Thanks. :)

I am mainly a Marshall-esque guy at the moment--with a dabbling of some
Mesa Rectifier and JPC thrown in. Currently digging the stock Marshall Lynchback IRs
in the Cab Block. Running two of them. One a 57 capture and the other a Royer 121
capture. I think those are Ownhammer??

Also enjoying the Leon Todd IRs in the Axechange.
Click to expand...
My personal opinion which take w grain of salt and one guy MSS beat me to answer

York Audio for what you mention
the 5153 , mesa Os or Mesa Trad would do great or even perhaps the latest Ya audio custom 212
i probably sound like a broken record but they really are that good

in each pack there is like 10 to 20 producer multi mic mixes and i am pretty confident you will never have to venture outside that folder
.....unless you want to
 
acwild said:
Still a bit ambiguous. Is that a maybe kind of no?
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Maybe.

Personally I just try to pick 1 that suits the amp I'm playing and roll with it. Though, I should admit that I play through a real speaker cab and not FRFR - so the IR I'm choosing is only for FOH. They use their own EQ and the room itself will change my tone anyway, so I figure why bother.

I'm going to be more influenced/inspired by the real cab next to me while on stage or at home. I think that inspiration comes through while playing, and that inspired playing will be more perceptible and influential to the listeners than the IR choice (given the chosen IR is in the ballpark) And don't forget that 'good' IR's are subjective anyway, so the hours we spend agonizing over the right IR may not even please the listeners ears. So just pick whatever you like.
 
Randalljax said:
My personal opinion which take w grain of salt and one guy MSS beat me to answer

York Audio for what you mention
the 5153 , mesa Os or Mesa Trad would do great or even perhaps the latest Ya audio custom 212
i probably sound like a broken record but they really are that good

in each pack there is like 10 to 20 producer multi mic mixes and i am pretty confident you will never have to venture outside that folder
.....unless you want to
Click to expand...

Thanks! :)

For $15 and change I think I may have to take the plunge. Pretty much glowing reviews,
and I tend to be the kind of guy who has to jump into the water and feel for myself no
matter whether others say it is too warm, too col, or just right. :)
 
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