Is the FM9 hard to use?

TheMadFretter

TheMadFretter

Member
People are interesting and Youtube takes it to a new level. I keep scratching my head. Especially when I see these recent Helix vs Fractal reviews ... it's ridiculous. In any review of the Fractal, they faithfully repeat the standing narrative of the Fractal gear is "really hard to use", "has a steep learning curve", trying to create or dial a tone on the unit itself is near impossible.

I have spent six months with the FM9, Helix, Amplitude 5 and ToneX products and I have to disagree. If fact, it's really very simple with the FM9. I can quickly create a sound that I cannot believe is coming out of my monitors.

WIth the FM9, I can simply drop in an AMP+CAB+Reverb and even at that point it's immediately satisfying, usable. Better stated, it's like walking up to an amp an plugging in ... you feel it ... you tweak it ... you smile. It's that starting point that makes the FM9 so much EASIER to use than the others. You can immediately get a good tone and then build it to a great tone, to your liking.

Seriously, drop an AMP+CAB+REVERB into your Helix. Yikes, it will sound awfull. Then either download some else's preset or spend hours watching videos and adding all kinds of tricks (watch Jason Sadie's videos to get a clue on the extreme complexity of getting a tone in Helix) to try to emulate the sound you're looking for. HOW IS THIS EASY? It's a nightmare. You quickly understand the videos comparing the Helix to the Fractal. Steering folks to the Helix means you are going to need to purchase IRS and Patches - it's just good business.

Do I watch Fractal videos? You bet I do (Leon's taught me much). Not to get a good tone but to learn how to exploit the incredible depth of features and capabilities that extends my FM9 far beyond anything that can be accomplished with the others.

Also, there's something about the FEEL of the FM9. I am not sure how Fractal does this, even with headphones, there's feel, punch and other subtle qualities that I associate with playing a tube amp. None of the others have this. It makes a difference when you are playing, it pulls you in, blocks the world out and makes you one with your guitar.

I have tried to use my other products, but the presets just sound flat/dead or ridiculously over effected to cover the poor tone. I don't have the time to tackle the complexity of trying to get a sound that pleases me out of them. Over the six months, I questioned myself ... am I just biased over my new toy? Nope, the others have lost their shine as they have been surpassed. It's that simple.

Note: I use FM9-EDIT as I use the GUI editor for all of these products. Programming on any hardware sucks period and I avoid it. It is never as nice as the editors. Programming any hardware unit is going to send you to the manual, there's no avoiding that.
 
To the whiny Helix fan-babies:
1000012612.jpg
 
It's all about perspective. I've been using Fractal products since 2015 and it took a couple of weeks to learn the terminology and workflow. I have never felt any Fractal device was hard to use, especially with the Edit programs.

A couple of years ago, our team bought a Helix Stomp and asked if I would create some presets for it. I found it less "intuitive" than advertised. Sure, adding amps and effects to the chain was simple enough, but the workflow took some time to figure out if there was anything I wanted that wasn't a default setting or model.

This is not a "Fractal is better" post, just stating that moving from one brand to another is going to take time to get used to how the system works and what different things are called. Anyone shying away from Fractal because it's "too hard" has bought the online rhetoric. Additionally, anyone who tries to refer back to a certain modeler as a reference for how another brand works is setting themselves up for frustration.
 
Last edited:
My first foray into digital FX was the Yamamaha GEP50 or whatever it was called.
Only 50 presets, many of which were not even editable, and no computer interface (or computer) to help with setting it up. Uphill. Both ways!

The unbelievable luxury of sitting semi-comfortably in my chair at my desk and using moose and squirrel, er..., mouse and keyboard to edit as many as 512 presets is amazing.... And, oh, what sounds it can make - waaaaaaaay better. Sooooo thankful. If it's too hard, maybe you're too soft‽


 
This is what I do for a living and I have had multiple friends switch to Fractal after hearing my tones and walking them through my layouts and such. But a couple friends gave up because they couldn't wrap their head around it compared to the QC, and a couple others almost gave up but I was able to convince them to push through.

So based on my experience I think the fractal UI definitely has a steep learning curve compared to other units (not kemper, that's the worst by far), but now that I’ve mastered it I think that’s because it’s just much more powerful than those other units, so there’s a lot more to learn. No other unit has channels, customizable layouts, or a grid-based signal flow, so it takes awhile to figure those things out vs. the more limited and dummy proof signal flow, one block one effect, and limited footswitch functions on a Helix or QC.

But I very much agree with your broader point about how easy it is to get good/realistic tones with no tweaking. 5 minutes after booting up my first fractal unit for the first time I had a better AC30 tone with just an amp and cab block than I ever got with Helix after 4 years of tweaking that unit, constantly fighting the weird grainy high end, “squirrels,” trying a ridiculous number of IRs, trying different EQ settings, etc. QC is much better but still not on fractal’s level.
 
Last edited:
I totally disagree with the "steep learning curve". I mean if you are technically challenged, maybe. But in this day and age who doesn't have a mobile phone or computer?
Sure to become a super user takes time-But to get great sounds and play your guitar-easy!
 
No denying that there is more of a learning curve on the UI than the editor. I've done most of my programming with the editor and it was stupid simple. I've been in the IT industry for 30 years and have used processors and midi in the past so I'm fairly comfortable with technology.
I've done some things with the UI and what I've done haven't been super hard. After about a month and a half with my FM9 I'm not very fluent with the UI but thats more my own fault as I haven't concentrated on that aspect. Right now I'm just blown away with the amp sounds and effects so have been doing everything in the editor as its quicker and gives me more time just to play.
 
The only thing that I might say that would provoke some wise thoughts is that modelers offer a wide range of choices that can help or denigrate your tone. The learning curve might be gaining experience with your modeler so that you can make better decisions after considering your choices.

Too many choices leads to "information paralysis," where one is overwhelmed by the number of choices one could make. Yet good study of your modeler prior to considering building a preset helps you gain experience. Ultimately, you'll need to learn what challenges you'll want to overcome vs. those that are less satisfying.

What's the takeaway? DON'T OVERTHINK IT. (You'll thank me later.) Start with amp/cab/reverb/input/output. Your prior experience with Fender-based circuits compared to Marshall-based circuits can be a good starting point for building several clean presets, then with some YT Leon/Cooper Carter study of clean platforms, vary your approach and add some effects or try tweaking your amp parameters for what your ears prefer. Many of us will want to dive right into the deep end before learning how to dog paddle. Trying to learn the intricacies of a "D"-style amp circuit without knowledge of matching cabs serves no one well.

Therefore, take some time to review about tube characteristics and what tones they're designed to produce. Then, if perhaps you're practicing guitarist who's bought and sold amps previously for whatever reason, but not settled on your signature amp sound and tone, take some time to explore the factory preset section and try to glean some ideas of what might work specifically for your needs.

Think of things in these terms: Whenever you have an important business meeting or date, you select your best business suit, shirt, tie and pair of shoes from your wardrobe. Knowing what article of clothing will compliment your look helps you look your best. Likewise, selecting your #1 guitar, and user preset where you can hang out with a choice of effects, scenes, may be the only things you need to enjoy a nice evening. It may not be the guy who has it all in one preset that proves successful in the end. Don't let the world dictate how you should act in certain circumstances. Instead, use and apply your knowledge wisely in a practical sense, while remembering that stepping beyond the "law's limits" are what news stories are made of. IOW, have fun, but don't get into trouble. Your experience as a guitarist will serve you well if you listen carefully, observe, and treat people well.
 
It's like everything else you can make it as complicated or as simple as you want. If you know the ingredients of the sounds you are after, it's very easy to achieve them with very little time and effort. If you want to dive into experimentation and deep parameter tweaking, you can make things complicated and confusing IF you don't have a target direction (or basic knowledge) in mind. Just because many things are adjustable don't mean they need to be changed. The other units are harder for me to use because FAS is what I'm most familiar with.
 
Finally, some reason.

Funny he was one of the folks that rated the Helix over the FM9.

Better value? Sure.
Good enough most? Absolutely.
Ahead of the FM9? Uhm, no. Not even close.

He shows how ridiculously easy it is to quickly dial up a great tone on the FM9. Nope you don’t need scores of effects and tweaks to get a good tone, just an amp and a cab. So, simple.

 
I have the AXE FX III T and FM9T.
I've choosed them because of their different form factor and compatibility + the great routing flexibility, probably the best in the market.
Happy of them because they are the ones that actually better fit my needs. Love them, but...

Quick answer: if you want to use factory/3rd parties preset, it's easy.
If you want to build your own presets it require a long training first.

I was prepared to face some complexity because of my demanding needs :D, but it took much more time than expected to learn how to do things because every time I've faced IMHO strange limitations, some of them I still don't understand now, causing more and more difficulties and time in finding the best way to build my presets.

Some examples:
  • A modifier can be set for all 4 channels or 1 of them.
    But if I set a modifier for channel A, I cannot set another one for channel, even if there are plenty of free modifiers left...?!?!
    I should add another equal block...
  • Many workarounds to some limitation require additional ‘less CPU consuming’ blocks, such as VOL. But VOL are limited to only 4, so I have to use other types of blocks making the preset hard to understand and maintain.
  • If I save a block settings with complete information it doesn't save its channel ABCD and scene on/off settings. Reason: it's related to the scenes. My opinion is they are still boxes' settings. So I have to write them onto paper...
  • AXE FXIII doesn't optionally merge MIDI, IMHO it should, and FM9 does it.
  • In FM9 there is only 1 source per modifier, even if I left unused 31 simultaneous modifiers allowed (and their sources).
    This makes no sense. A very annoying limitation, which forces me to avoid use dual modifiers even with the AXE FXIII, otherwise I go mental creating compatible presets.
  • I can't rename a PITCH2 block in PITCH1, becaming crazy in exporting/importing presets from AXE to FM9.
It's a long list, but now I "learned" these limitations, but I have to admit that a very big amount of time was spent in trying, asking, trying again to find some not intuitive workarounds.

Beside these and other aspects, I will always choose FAS because in these form factor they are actually the only ones in the market that can fit my needs. 🖤
 
Last edited:
TheMadFretter said:
People are interesting and Youtube takes it to a new level. I keep scratching my head. Especially when I see these recent Helix vs Fractal reviews ... it's ridiculous. In any review of the Fractal, they faithfully repeat the standing narrative of the Fractal gear is "really hard to use", "has a steep learning curve", trying to create or dial a tone on the unit itself is near impossible.

I have spent six months with the FM9, Helix, Amplitude 5 and ToneX products and I have to disagree. If fact, it's really very simple with the FM9. I can quickly create a sound that I cannot believe is coming out of my monitors.

WIth the FM9, I can simply drop in an AMP+CAB+Reverb and even at that point it's immediately satisfying, usable. Better stated, it's like walking up to an amp an plugging in ... you feel it ... you tweak it ... you smile. It's that starting point that makes the FM9 so much EASIER to use than the others. You can immediately get a good tone and then build it to a great tone, to your liking.

Seriously, drop an AMP+CAB+REVERB into your Helix. Yikes, it will sound awfull. Then either download some else's preset or spend hours watching videos and adding all kinds of tricks (watch Jason Sadie's videos to get a clue on the extreme complexity of getting a tone in Helix) to try to emulate the sound you're looking for. HOW IS THIS EASY? It's a nightmare. You quickly understand the videos comparing the Helix to the Fractal. Steering folks to the Helix means you are going to need to purchase IRS and Patches - it's just good business.

Do I watch Fractal videos? You bet I do (Leon's taught me much). Not to get a good tone but to learn how to exploit the incredible depth of features and capabilities that extends my FM9 far beyond anything that can be accomplished with the others.

Also, there's something about the FEEL of the FM9. I am not sure how Fractal does this, even with headphones, there's feel, punch and other subtle qualities that I associate with playing a tube amp. None of the others have this. It makes a difference when you are playing, it pulls you in, blocks the world out and makes you one with your guitar.

I have tried to use my other products, but the presets just sound flat/dead or ridiculously over effected to cover the poor tone. I don't have the time to tackle the complexity of trying to get a sound that pleases me out of them. Over the six months, I questioned myself ... am I just biased over my new toy? Nope, the others have lost their shine as they have been surpassed. It's that simple.

Note: I use FM9-EDIT as I use the GUI editor for all of these products. Programming on any hardware sucks period and I avoid it. It is never as nice as the editors. Programming any hardware unit is going to send you to the manual, there's no avoiding that.
Click to expand...
This is quite literally, almost verbatim, how I would have expressed my experience with the FM9T vs the other modellers. The only thing I would say in defence of the "others" (Helix, Boss, NUX, Mooer, Headrush), is that all the others DO have some really excellent FX, some of which either don't exist on the FM9 or are just different to the extent that it would be difficult to dial that specific sound in on the FM9. That's not a criticism of the FM9, it's just to be expected really. It would be very strange in fact if it wasn't the case.

There is also the profiler vs modeller debate to consider. I have a Kemper and Tonex, had a play around with the QC and Neural plugins, and in terms of nailing a specific amp tone, they are excellent. Have to say that there are occasions where I've simply dropped a capture into the chain in the "amp/cab" positions on the FM9 grid and it has sounded absolutely superb. Sometimes the feel with these captures is so close to the real amp I actually can't tell the difference any more. That said, it is very dependent upon the latency of the unit, and so I only really use them for the pure amp/cab capture.

If I had to guess why it is that so many YouTubers seem to think that the Fractal stuff is "hard to use", "you need a degree to figure it out" etc. I'd say it's probably to do with how close the UI (the visual appearance of the settings on the unit itself) is, and the somewhat abstracted UI of the Edit app. I like the app and how it makes the chain so easy to understand, but a lot of guitarists want something that looks and feels like the real world i.e. an amp with a cab and a pedalboard, and individual components that visually mirror what the effects and amps etc. look like, knobs in the same places, same function, same colours etc. Their brain then doesn't need to do any further processing to grasp what is going on with the things they are tweaking, and it's all very comfortable and familiar to them. Headrush units are particularly good at this, as is the Fender Tonemaster Pro (but neither sound anywhere near as good as the FM9 imo). Of course touchscreens are all the rage now as well with mobile phones/phone apps making everyone feel as if they should be able to interact that way with just about everything. Personally I think the best of them make use of both touchscreen (press the amp picture on the touchscreen, you go into the amp settings), AND physical knobs on the unit (turn to adjust the gain etc.). If you've ever used an Helix though, you'll know how unbelievably fiddly that can be to configure at times, so the argument that the Fractal units are more difficult "than the others" isn't true for all of them.

For me the overall tone and feel of anything I use will always take priority over just about everything else. For some people that isn't quite the case.
 
Having come from the helix world, I can tell you that it's not that hard to get a good tone on the Helix, but it's easier on the Fractal, especially out of the box. Also, the Fm9 is more powerful in terms of DSP and foot switching abilities.

That being said, I think it really helps to have experience with real amps and gear in order to get good sounds out of component modelers like the Helix or Fractal. Most of the people who struggle with getting good tones don't know how to dial in real amps either, at least in my experience. And since fractal is so committed to tube amp accuracy and modeling all the little quirks and imperfections, it can be off-putting to someone who's never used a real amp. The Helix's more streamlined approach is a little more accessible.

Also, the Helix definitely has some better work-flow in some areas. For example, when step on the switch for an effect, its controls come on screen for quick editing. Also, I really wish Fractal had a combined Amp+Cab block like the helix, or at least someway to sync channels and bypass states between the two blocks. But I'll take the sound and power of Fractal over Helix. I'm hopeful that those features will make their way to fractal.
 
The one I love, er, hate, is when people bitch about something requiring too many steps to execute on the hardware, when it's clearly described in the manual. And not hard to find either.

I'll admit, I don't know the front panel all that well. But I have been able to quickly find my answer by going to the manual's TOC, looking for the topic, clicking that, and finding my answer. Now if all I was willing to do was to try and figure it out on my own, yeah, I'd have been frustrated. But that's NOT the fault of Fractal!
 
The answer is clearly YES. The FM9 is hard to use in comparison to an amp and pedal board :) But yeah, if I can get over that- someone who avoided rack gear and anything digital for many years- so can you! The technical challenge isn't for everyone, don't let anyone shame you if that's the case. Still less than 5-10% of the few hundred guitarists I know use modellers.
 
I have only recently acquired my first Fractal units this year with a FM3 and FM9. I did spend some time learning the Fractal ecosystem and took Cooper Carter's Master Class for the FM3 when I first got it; just to be certain I knew everything I needed to in order to maximize my use.

I wouldn't say that the learning curve was "steep" or overly laborious; just something that needed to be learned. I had used various Line 6 products from the original bean and Flextone to the Helix Floor and after diving into the Fractal stuff, I can't say it's more difficult; just different.

What I will say is that I'd rather have more things to learn and fewer limitations on what I want to accomplish than the reverse scenario. What I found is that the the Fractal work flow feels like home to me.
 
Babtanian said:
I have only recently acquired my first Fractal units this year with a FM3 and FM9. I did spend some time learning the Fractal ecosystem and took Cooper Carter's Master Class for the FM3 when I first got it; just to be certain I knew everything I needed to in order to maximize my use.

I wouldn't say that the learning curve was "steep" or overly laborious; just something that needed to be learned. I had used various Line 6 products from the original bean and Flextone to the Helix Floor and after diving into the Fractal stuff, I can't say it's more difficult; just different.

What I will say is that I'd rather have more things to learn and fewer limitations on what I want to accomplish than the reverse scenario. What I found is that the the Fractal work flow feels like home to me.
Click to expand...
Hi, does the Master Class include videos with subtitles that can be translated into Czech? On the YouTube channel, CC subtitles can be turned on and with a Czech translation. Unfortunately, I'm an older person and I don't know English
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom