Is multi-tracking gain patches necessary?

Sten

Inspired
I think I've seen at least one here who's done a direct recorded clip without multi-tracking each part, and gotten a very good result. It was a lower gain patch, but still. It's not just that the effort of multi-tracking discourages me. It's that I feel there should be a way to get a 'proper' tone that will fit in the - any? - mix.

Yes? No?
 
You mean getting a good sound that can fit in a mix without double tracking? Yes you can. There is no wrong answer really. However, people tend to do double tracking because you can get the desired result with a higher guarantee as opposed to one guitar on each side.

So to answer your question, no it isn't necessary. It can help, but it's not a set rule. You just have to know how to have a good balanced tone that can be shaped well for the mix.
 
generally multi-tracking is used for a couple of reasons

- creating more apparent power in the guitar tone

- stereo imaging / widening

if neither of these tonal effects are important to you then there's no need to track the guitars..
in fact, if you play within a dense mix / orchestration [with lots of keys, synths or brass for example], and the apparent power of the tone is not important, I could see a benefit for only a single mono guitar track..

to track or not to track....
it's about tonal requirements and taste..
 
It comes down to a number of questions. What are your goals for the mix? What type of music is it? Is the guitar a primary focus in that type of music? Etc... You can certainly get away with recording one mono guitar track for a song, but it may not be the best move depending on your answers to the previous questions. If you're talking about high gain tones in particular, I'd advise against double-tracking (or more) and stacking them on top of each other. Pan them to opposite sides of the stereo field. It doesn't have to be 100% L-R. When you do your double-track, use a different guitar, different amp sim, different cab sim, different mic sim in the Axe-Fx. A change in any one of those things (or most certainly all of them) will yield enough difference to get you a cohesive guitar track, yet still retain the separation you're looking for. Get good at double-tracking or write complimentary parts that will be panned opposite of each other. Play different voicings of the same chord. Or try this...take your chords for any given song and divide them up. Record the parts for the top three strings on one track and pan it out to the left. Then record the parts for the bottom three strings on another track and pan them out right. It's kind of a weird process and takes a little getting used to, but it can yield some cool results. And in answer to your final question, unfortunately, no. There isn't a way to get a tone that will fit in "any" mix. There's too many other variables involved with the other instruments going on in the mix (live or recorded) to come up with one solitary tone that'd work for everything. I know...it sucks. But such is life. :) Anyway, hope some of this helps. Cheers!
 
How could anyone answer this question for you? What kind of mix are you talking about? What other instruments are in the mix? What is the roll of the guitar in the track? Is there more than one guitar player? What is the genre of the song? What are the typical mix expectations for a song in that genre?

On any given mix/song there are an endless number of guitar sounds that could potentially work depending on what you as the artist want to convey to the listener. Only you can decide which one is right. You might not have that vision for your recordings/songs, that is where a producer might benefit you. I try to have a clear idea of where I want a track to go before I start recording. Of course things always seem to change as you move along in the process (sometimes small changes, sometimes huge), but I think it's important to have some idea in your head of what you're trying to accomplish before you start. If you don't have that then you should consider letting someone else guide the recording process for you (such as a producer, another band member, an engineer).

If you think there is a "proper" tone that will fit into any mix then you are destined to be sorely disappointed with any gear that you buy/use, because nothing will accomplish that for you. ANY gear could be made to fit into a mix (with the proper tweaking, playing and understanding of the context of the track you are trying to work with), but at the same time ANY gear could be a total struggle if the person using it doesn't know what they are doing.

In the end no one online can help you with this. Figure out what you want out of your recordings and then learn how to use your gear to accomplish your goal.

p
 
It's not just that the effort of multi-tracking discourages me. It's that I feel there should be a way to get a 'proper' tone that will fit in the - any? - mix.

this has got me thinking...
you have a variety of possibilities open to you..

the following suggestions only require you to record a single performance of your part

- you can record the performance dry and reamp the part two or more times...
this is significantly less effort than playing and recording two independent parts
once you've nailed your performance, each reamped recording only takes the duration of the song's length to record..
so it's low effort..
this is how I record..

- you can create a preset with either:
-- two amps through a stereo cab [pan them wide]
-- one amp through a stereo cab with a different cab type, each panned wide
this does not require reamping as you are recording the tone directly generated from the Axe
the prob here is that you now have a stereo recording with a slightly different tone each side..
if you need to eq / compress them each a little differentlly you'll need to mess with aux channels to sort this out..
if you need help / suggestions with this.. shout..

- you can record your single amp / cab, and then in the DAW:
-- set the channel strip's output as you would normally and pan this one hard left
-- add a 'send' on this channel strip to an aux panned hard right [the aux has the same 'normal' output set]
-- on the aux, insert a sample delay and set it to between 200 and 600 samples
this will give you nice stereo imaging from a mono recorded performance


alternatively...
you just have a snigle mono recording of your tone and you love it just as it is..
in the DAW send to an aux with a stereo reverb [short ambient] to place your tone into a "room" with the rest of the band..
 
It comes down to a number of questions. What are your goals for the mix? What type of music is it? Is the guitar a primary focus in that type of music? Etc... You can certainly get away with recording one mono guitar track for a song, but it may not be the best move depending on your answers to the previous questions. If you're talking about high gain tones in particular, I'd advise against double-tracking (or more) and stacking them on top of each other. Pan them to opposite sides of the stereo field. It doesn't have to be 100% L-R. When you do your double-track, use a different guitar, different amp sim, different cab sim, different mic sim in the Axe-Fx. A change in any one of those things (or most certainly all of them) will yield enough difference to get you a cohesive guitar track, yet still retain the separation you're looking for. Get good at double-tracking or write complimentary parts that will be panned opposite of each other. Play different voicings of the same chord. Or try this...take your chords for any given song and divide them up. Record the parts for the top three strings on one track and pan it out to the left. Then record the parts for the bottom three strings on another track and pan them out right. It's kind of a weird process and takes a little getting used to, but it can yield some cool results. And in answer to your final question, unfortunately, no. There isn't a way to get a tone that will fit in "any" mix. There's too many other variables involved with the other instruments going on in the mix (live or recorded) to come up with one solitary tone that'd work for everything. I know...it sucks. But such is life. :) Anyway, hope some of this helps. Cheers!

Dividing the chords up is key to how we write music. We have 2 guitarists and when one of us is playing the bottom end, the other one is playing the top end/embellishments. That way we can get the high-gain saturation and maintain clarity within complex chords. In the studio, we double and triple tracked both guitar parts using different pickup positions/coil taps and amp sounds.
 
I tend to do the 'divide up chords' thing when I'm recording acoustic parts..
cos it sounds utterly jaw dropping...

if I do this with electric parts [especially riffing]
it tends to be two parts:
1 - the part I'd play live
2 - an 'augmenting' part, generally to add size / power
 
If you're doing a high gain metal mix, double tracking is pretty much standard procedure. There's also triple or even quad tracking depending on the track and what needs to be achieved but I won't go into that.

Personally I've never ever had a good tone with a single guitar track so I always at least double track everything I do, even small demos. That doesn't mean it won't work for you though. You could try doing mono tracks and see what you can come up with. Maybe it will work maybe not, it's up to you to decide whether you're happy with what you're getting.
 
In most metal, both guitars are playng the same thing, or close to the same thing. It seems that when you get wildly different parts, the guitars tend to cancel each other out.

I recently posted a link to an article at the Reaper forums called "Why do my recordings sound like ass?...", and just after where I happened to have left off a bit ago fit right into this discussion.


...Here's the key (literally and figuratively):

In the I-IV-V progression in D, the three most important notes are D,G,A.

...You can't just dial in a good bass sound and then use that for everything and expect to get the same effect. I can't go so far as to say that presets and recipes are useless, but I think there is more danger for the novice in over-reliance on them than there is in simply not using them at all. In some respects, the less you need them, the more useful they can be. The great danger is in trusting presets more than your ears, and sadly, I think that is often the norm among beginning home recordists these days.



Okay. That's discouraging in a way. Let's backtrack, though. Let's say there is no key - and that the guitars are only sometimes playing the same thing, but often not.
 
hmmm... not sure I'm following you with this...

when you want to make a 'big' tone from multiple recorded performances there are choices..

- unison - you perform the same part more than once
but you need to play it very very actuarately.. you need to be able to play every single detail
and you need to play them very very tight..
if you don't it'll be a mess
tone choices for these parts should be similar but not exactly the same..
this is especially important in the lower end of the tone..
if one tone is significanlty more energtic in the bass freqs it'll make the mix 'lean' to one side

- harmonised - you create multiple parts that are completely different but complimentary
when you do this you have to pay close attention to what both parts are doing at any given time to ensure that notes don't clash between the parts..
common practice here is to have one part riff, the play power chords, or the other part to play a derivative of the riff in a higher / lower octave..
and of course sometimes you hear the harmonised part tracking the main part diatonically a 3rd higher.. or introducing additional notes so that the two parts combine to make richer chords [that hi-gain tones couldn't tollerate playing all at once]..
as this is an independent part it can be tonally completely different..

- augmentation - here you play a 'stripped down' version of the main guitar part, generally single notes and playing the roots of power chords
this is simply to add weight to the core elements of the riffs and to prevent the 5th of the power chord dominating the sound - thereby increasing the relative strength of the root note
here the tone can be pretty different to the main riffing tone.. generally it's less gainy
 
- harmonised - you create multiple parts that are completely different but complimentary
when you do this you have to pay close attention to what both parts are doing at any given time to ensure that notes don't clash between the parts..
common practice here is to have one part riff, the play power chords, or the other part to play a derivative of the riff in a higher / lower octave..
and of course sometimes you hear the harmonised part tracking the main part diatonically a 3rd higher.. or introducing additional notes so that the two parts combine to make richer chords [that hi-gain tones couldn't tollerate playing all at once]..
as this is an independent part it can be tonally completely different..

That's what I meant by 'playing close to the same thing'. I mean independent parts. What I really mean is something like a string trio - something like two violas, and a cello or bass, where the guitars are the violas; and as much as possible doing an 'accurate recording'. Does that make sense?
 
gotchya....
some superb examples of this is are on the album Escape by Journey
Judas Priest were very good at this too in and around the Killing Machine era

ok.. so back to the OP's original question:

Is multi-tracking gain patches necessary?

you don't have to do it...
it all depends upon the needs of the song and the genre of the song..
without tracking the guitars you'll not sound quite so big
it seemed to work for EVH though don't ya think..
 
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