Is little to no feedback just the way it is with modelers?

S

skolacki

Fractal Fanatic
I recall reading while researching prior to buying the FM3, that getting controlled feedback with modelers wasn't the same as with an amp and cab. And I find that to be true. I'm not really a hi gain player but I definitely use distortion. Not on a chug level but more classic rock. These same tones on my tube rig produced controlled feedback. But with the FM3 and a FRFR, it just doesn't happen even at band volume. I'm happy with the tones I'm getting and doubt I'll ever go back. But I miss being able to position the guitar and get that controlled feedback. Feedback is just what it is, sound feeding back into the guitar and amp. So I don't understand why modelers don't respond in the same way. If anyone can explain that to me I would appreciate it.
 
Hi

Controlled feedback is achieved by volume causing the guitar, strings, etc to resonate and react. Often, when using modellers, we are not playing at volumes suitable to get that feedback. Also, using modellers and in-ears or headphones leaves nothing for the guitar to react to.
Try turning up and see how you go.

Thanks
Pauly

skolacki said:
I recall reading while researching prior to buying the FM3, that getting controlled feedback with modelers wasn't the same as with an amp and cab. And I find that to be true. I'm not really a hi gain player but I definitely use distortion. Not on a chug level but more classic rock. These same tones on my tube rig produced controlled feedback. But with the FM3 and a FRFR, it just doesn't happen even at band volume. I'm happy with the tones I'm getting and doubt I'll ever go back. But I miss being able to position the guitar and get that controlled feedback. Feedback is just what it is, sound feeding back into the guitar and amp. So I don't understand why modelers don't respond in the same way. If anyone can explain that to me I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...
 
pauly said:
Hi

Controlled feedback is achieved by volume causing the guitar, strings, etc to resonate and react. Often, when using modellers, we are not playing at volumes suitable to get that feedback. Also, using modellers and in-ears or headphones leaves nothing for the guitar to react to.
Try turning up and see how you go.

Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...

Hey Pauly, even at practice with my speaker cranked pretty good I don’t seem to get feedback. I’m playing Saturday so I’ll try to make it work. With tube amps it’s easy for me but not with my setup. I’m using the Headrush 112 on a small table. Which means guitar height. I’ve been using the FM3 on the table and a FC6 on the floor. So when I’m reaching for switches or tweaks the speaker is literally pointed straight at my guitar.
 
When I get my rig cranking it's easy but different than a traditional guitar cab. With a CLR you just have to find the right spot(s) i.e. don't put your guitar pickup up to the horn, nasty!
 
It’s possible to get feedback from a clean electric guitar straight into a mixer if the speaker setup is correct. Any additional gain from amp sims just makes it easier.

Simply pointing a speaker at a guitar may not do it. I’ve seen vids of several “guitar gods” walking all around their multiple 4x12 cabs on stage to make it feedback the way they want.
 
Repartee41 said:
Modeler or amp has nothing to do with it. The monitoring system however, has all to do with it. Is it possible for feedback while listening through only headphones? No. Through studio monitors? Possible. Through a PA system? Yes. Through a speaker cab? Yes.
Click to expand...

That is correct. The feedback or lack of feedback has nothing to do with using a modeler or a real amp. It is only about the interaction between the speaker and the guitar
 
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Modeler + Sustianiac = low volume variable harmonic feedback fun!

Different order natural harmonic (and controlled) feedback IMHO is just not easily attainable when using modeler, cab and speaker sims. Something about the simulation and the regenerative function of what we call reasonable level natural guitar amp feedback that doesn’t translate and tends to die before it can build properly. For instance, as my tubes would wear it would become more difficult to get that perfect feedback. So there’s a lot going on in the gain structure and harmonic content.

Disclaimer:
A Sustaniac equipped guitar is cool, but I would still want/need a regular passive two/three pup guitar.
Also, I only have had the FM3 for about 2 months and play it through 2 QSC 12.2‘s. I really haven’t cranked to see if the other impressive aspects of it translate to getting feedback, too. Most my opinions are based on older modeling tech that I hated. I even had a Line 6 Spider Valve that could never get that right feedback that a good old tube amp with nicely broken in guitar speakers could achieve.
 
Hi again,

I just changed the strings on a LP, plugged in, tuned up ....and as soon as I got rid of the tuner, it started feeding back at pretty low volume... Lovely controllable one string vibrating in sympathy with the devil type of feedback .. So of course I thought of you! Try changing your strings if it's been a while.

Thanks
Pauly

skolacki said:
I recall reading while researching prior to buying the FM3, that getting controlled feedback with modelers wasn't the same as with an amp and cab. And I find that to be true. I'm not really a hi gain player but I definitely use distortion. Not on a chug level but more classic rock. These same tones on my tube rig produced controlled feedback. But with the FM3 and a FRFR, it just doesn't happen even at band volume. I'm happy with the tones I'm getting and doubt I'll ever go back. But I miss being able to position the guitar and get that controlled feedback. Feedback is just what it is, sound feeding back into the guitar and amp. So I don't understand why modelers don't respond in the same way. If anyone can explain that to me I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...
 
With Kemper, that was exactly what i experienced (hooked to a real cab)
One of many other reasons why i ditched the Kemper ... felt clean - but super artificial.
With the FM3, i get normal feedback (playing load in front of a real cab), pretty sweet :)
 
I've been surprised with gorgeous feedback octave overtones since Cygnus a couple of times. And with in-ears no amp and way behind FOH.
Something magical that the EF86 matchbox does on certain notes with P90s
 
Have pretty easily got glorious feedback in bedroom converted to studio with Ax7 monitors, fairly loud volume but not maxed, and not having to be all that close to them, obviously had to be in the “right spot”.
 
I used the headrush and I agree I had real problems even at live levels of getting feedback, coming from a high gain music background, I had always fought to not have so much feedback. I switched to a real cab and Fryette tube amp and I have all the feedback I want. So I can relate.
 
My rig consists of stereo HeadRush FRFR108s at shoulder height. The speakers themselves are about chest height. Can the FRFRs feed back? Yes. Does proximity to the speakers matter? Yes. Will increasing either the FM3's or speakers' volume increase the chance of feedback? Yes. Does it matter what amp model you choose? Yes. Will re-stringing your guitar improve your tone and sustain? Yes, YMMV. Does refilling your beer make you happier, or not? ;)
 
For me FRFR made the Feedback not correct & over-responsive in the HighEnd area of Feedback.
This Trip Around for me with Modeling I found the Friedman ASC-10 which is not perfectly Flat... I get much better Feedback with the ASC-10
 
As others have mentioned, there are a lot of factors (the main one being volume). I have a DigiTech Freqout pedal on my board for generating controlled feedback and I'm pretty happy with it, although just like any other tool, it takes some getting used to.
 
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