Is arrived the time for Axe-Fx III to profile an amp?

[laxu]

Personally I'm not interested either..though tone match gets close already.

I came to the conclusion a decade or so ago (whenever kemper came out) they are 2 different products for 2 outcomes.

Profiling is for people who "hear a sound and want that sound". A copy of something specific.

Modelling is for people who hear a sound in their head and go out to make it reality.

I'm firmly in camp 2. Real amps frustrated me for years. No matter how great the amp evey one had something I couldn't quite dial in, or dial out, or shared eqs between channels, or compromised clean for drive (or vica versa). I couldt make them like the sound I was hearing in my head. Modelling done well does this.

I get why some might prefer profiling, I get some uses (real amp players who don't want to haul them on tour for instance). Just not my way.

I think of profilers as copiers and modellers as innovators kind of.

I see profiling/captures as making an easier to transport facsimile of some gear that is not already modeled. At the same time, I don't see a point capturing either of my amps because I can just use Vox or Matchless models for one and Fender and Marshall models for the other. With some tweaking I can get the models to my liking and I see no benefit for having a 1:1 replica of my real amps. Which is why in the "new amps" wish list threads I'm trying to tell people to just work with what is already in the unit (and it's a lot) rather than asking for a preset of whatever boutique Marshall or Fender variant you are interested in.

But if I had something more unique that I love like a specific overdrive pedal or a rare amp that is not easily replicated by existing models, then I could see the benefit of capturing that.

I don't see a capturing feature being much of a benefit for the Fractal system. They already do way more than any player would ever need and having thousands of captures of some obscure gear is not going to change that.

 

[rsvette12]

Thanks Buddy

I am inventor sounds like you have a ton of experience - great stuff - as for me Gillette product packaging - great company

 

[RevDrucifer]

I’d love to see Cliff do his version of profiling/capturing, with a drop-down list of tone stacks from as many amps as he could fit in there, so when people went to tweak the profile/capture (Axeture?), they’d be tweaking the actual tone stack from the amp instead of someone else’s idea of what an idea tone stack should be doing.

If only to see the tizzy it’d work up, it’d be worth it alone.

 

[Deleted member 79338]

All I can say is I have had my Axe FX since Monday, I owned a Kemper for 3 years. I managed to completely replicate my JCM800 in 30 minutes for free on the Axe, never could on the Kemper after £100s on profiles.

A review will be coming soon but I don't think Fractal have anything to worry about and in my view, so far the modelling in the Axe is far better than the profiling in the Kemper.

Could just be the honeymoon period hence me holding off on a review.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

All I can say is I have had my Axe FX since Monday, I owned a Kemper for 3 years. I managed to completely replicate my JCM800 in 30 minutes for free on the Axe, never could on the Kemper after £100s on profiles.

A review will be coming soon but I don't think Fractal have anything to worry about and in my view, so far the modelling in the Axe is far better than the profiling in the Kemper.

Could just be the honeymoon period hence me holding off on a review.

Why not profile your jcm?

 

[paulmapp8306]

Why not profile your jcm?

profiling - despite what might be said on't interweb (or gushing users), is not that good actually.... I mean its good, but in context of perfect replicas its not. Theres always a low end rumble/thump/..something thats not there in reality.

This is where the quad cortex is much better..... ANT it can profile FX pedals - though Ive not heard how good that is or isnt yet.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

profiling - despite what might be said on't interweb (or gushing users), is not that good actually.... I mean its good, but in context of perfect replicas its not. Theres always a low end rumble/thump/..something thats not there in reality.

This is where the quad cortex is much better..... ANT it can profile FX pedals - though Ive not heard how good that is or isnt yet.

Very familiar with kemper. But assuming the user didn't profile his jcm (maybe he did?), there's a good chance he would have gotten considerably closer to his amp by doing so vs trying out random JCM profiles.

 

[zerocrossing]

I don’t really see the need for profiling, and that’s coming from a guy who’s sole amp sound provider was a Kemper. If you’re a guy with a bunch of real amps and want them replicated for touring, just get a Kemper. The sounds is on par with the AxeFX 3, in my opinion, though I think that a good profile isn’t a simple thing to do. Many high-gain sounds end up with some weird mush in the lower mids, but some sound fantastic. I don’t really know what it takes to make a great profile, because I only ever used factory or third party profiles, but it’s clearly possible. Acoustically dead room? Good mic placement? No idea. Those are just guesses based on my experience as an audio engineer.

In the end, though, if you can’t get the tone you’re after with an AxeFX... I think you’re doing something wrong. With the large list of modeled amps/cabs and the ability to use your own impulse responses, you could explore great sounds for your lifetime, and that’s not counting digging into the deeper nitty gritty of parameters not found on any amp’s faceplate. Frankly, I’d rather see development time going into some amp models that are rare or unique than the ability to profile.

 

[zerocrossing]

profiling - despite what might be said on't interweb (or gushing users), is not that good actually.... I mean its good, but in context of perfect replicas its not. Theres always a low end rumble/thump/..something thats not there in reality.

This is where the quad cortex is much better..... ANT it can profile FX pedals - though Ive not heard how good that is or isnt yet.

I honestly think that what you’re describing, while totally true, is due to poor profiling. I say this because I’ve gotten that “low end rumble/thrump” sound correct from some profiles, but have also heard it sound crappy in many profiles, even some factory ones. I remember looking for a SLO-100 profile that I liked. I’d owned one in the distant past, but ditched it when I became studio bound. I couldn’t find a good one for the longest time, and then I did. I don’t even think it was a commercial pack. I just stumbled upon it in the user library. But that’s also a problem, in a sense, if you’re not someone who can do good profiles for whatever reason. You’re at the mercy of others.

I had a Quad Cortex on order, and from demos I did think it sounded great, but frankly I think some people were over hyping it. One guy in another forum ended up selling his after some technical issues, but while it was working he didn’t find it better than his Kemper. I think that in the realm of what we’re talking about, it really doesn’t matter much whether you pick a Kemper, Quad Cortex or AxeFX. I think they’re all equally good. The key is picking the one whose feature set suits you the best.

 

[zerocrossing]

That’s why many of us also enjoy synthesizers, so we can chase those 80s synth tones from 30 years ago lol

I don’t know about “new” sounds though.... last time someone tried that we all had to suffer through Dubstep for a few Years

There really are two categories of people with guitar or synth sounds, though it’s not a binary choice. You’ve got some people who spend their life getting and using the sounds they fell in love with off albums. That could be a Jimi Hendrix sound or a Vangelis sound. Then you have people who love those sounds but focus more on exploring new sounds. I’d say that on guitar, I’m probably 40% exploring new sounds. On synths, I’m definitely more like 80% new sounds. It used to be about the same but when I started diving into synthesizers my need for unique guitar tones sort of went by the wayside. I own all those dubstep synthesizers (plugins) and yet I’ve never wubbed.

 

[Vio]

I have something even better. Waiting for my patent approval.

If I were HIM I would build a hardware to support any amp in the current devices (III/FM3) and sell them as 'amp' only. cheap. people could then reuse their pedals and whatnot with a frfr. Amp firmwares for sale separately with free stickers for the front knobs. free upgrades.

 

[Michael R]

I think it would be cool to see FAS develop three different pieces of modeling gear, a Preamp, an FX Processor and a Power Amp that has an output transformer. The "Fractal Pre", the "Fractal FX" and the "Fractal PA".

 

[Lopp]

Thanks Buddy

I am inventor sounds like you have a ton of experience - great stuff - as for me Gillette product packaging - great company

Good stuff. It's always good to work for a great company and you must have had incredible skill in packaging design.

Coincidentally, when I was a patent examiner, my Art Unit was "Simulation, emulation, and modeling." That was a decade before the first Axe-Fx, but if I were an examiner today, I would fall off my chair if I was assigned Cliff's patent application. (Mental picture of a Monty Python skit with a patent examiner overdramatically falling off his chair).

 

[Lopp]

I think it would be cool to see FAS develop three different pieces of modeling gear... an FX Processor... the "Fractal FX"...

FX8?
https://www.fractalaudio.com/p-fx8-multieffects-pedalboard/

 

[Deleted member 79338]

Why not profile your jcm?

I did, the profile process added a tone of low end and also created a mid hump, the same mid hump I find on most profiles. I also profiles the JVM410 and my 2525h and all had the same issue.

It tender to also add additional gain, like it was pushing the front of the amp too much. This was with or without the refining process.

I made 500 profiles of those amps in various stages, expecially the JVM, no setting was left unturned......all I got was a overly bassy gain heavy mid humped pile of nonsense.

 

[Mooncaster]

More features never hurt, so If fractal would grace us with profiling tech, then why not? I could see them making it a separate unit altogether though. With modeling we can adjust very specific parameters of preamp and power amp, along with components. Profiling is a snap shot and I would assume none of those features would be available with that.

 

[paulmapp8306]

I did, the profile process added a tone of low end and also created a mid hump, the same mid hump I find on most profiles. I also profiles the JVM410 and my 2525h and all had the same issue.

It tender to also add additional gain, like it was pushing the front of the amp too much. This was with or without the refining process.

I made 500 profiles of those amps in various stages, expecially the JVM, no setting was left unturned......all I got was a overly bassy gain heavy mid humped pile of nonsense.

yeh - not easy at all to get a decent profile. Much harder than kemper would have you believe. The vast majority of users dont even have access to more than 1 or 23 amps to profile either. They trail the internet - downloading free (or even worse paying for) profile - many hundereds of the same amps trying to find the tone they want. Even if they find one close enough - once you modify it it drifts from the sense of "real" to a sense of "artificial" anyway....

Id rather spend a lot less time creating the sound I want from the tools in the AFX... but then In an engineer by trade so love ripping things apart and re-building them.... real or virtual.

 

[paulmapp8306]

More features never hurt, so If fractal would grace us with profiling tech, then why not? I could see them making it a separate unit altogether though. With modeling we can adjust very specific parameters of preamp and power amp, along with components. Profiling is a snap shot and I would assume none of those features would be available with that.

Could easily just add the function to the AFX3 like they did with tone match. It could kill kemper with the two techs in one box rather than just add a less mature tech in a new box to the existing market that kemper is more likely to ride out, and with the quad cortex in that place as well.... I think adding it to AFX would actually end up with bigger market share for fractal than 2 seperate units.

Have to wait and see though.

 

[GlennO]

Personally, I have little use for profiling. A good model is objectively better than a profile of the same amp since it's more than merely a single snapshot of the settings. Profiles are good for filling in the gaps in a modeler that doesn't have many models (and a Kemper is nothing but gaps), but an AxeFX has nearly 300 models, so you'd have to be pretty picky to find any gaps.

More to the point, I'm past using a modeler to mimic amps that exist in the real world. That's so 2010 . I'm more interested in using an AxeFX to dial in interesting tones, without regard for whether it's based on a real amp or not.

That said, anybody can put 2 and 2 together and see some kind of modeler/profiler, ala the Quad Cortex, is coming from Fractal. Probably sooner rather than later.

 

[Vio]

with so may tweak-able usable tones I can't see a reason to use profiles. If I were using my old Zoom G9.2TT maybe I would think about profiling a real amp and use it instead of its modeled ones but we're no longer in 2005 and the sounds coming out of the fractal is as real as you can perceive in a band or recording. played by itself MAYBE you could FEEL something different than a real amp but on a blind test most of us would fail....