Is a separate EQ rack unit needed for the Axe-FX II?

Hugomack

Experienced
I noticed Dada has a "Tube EQ" unit in his rack, and wondered if others have found that fine-tuning the sound to venues requires a separate EQ unit, or whether the FX II has enough easily adjusted global EQ controls on the front panel to make a separate EQ unit necessary?
 
It's hard for me to imagine needing more EQ options than are available within the FX II. I've heard of plenty of people using global EQ to tweak for changing venues, but I haven't heard much about people using external EQs.
 
If there is one thing the Axe-Fx is not short of, it's EQs.

2 Graphic EQs in the amps
4 Parameteric Equalizer blocks
4 Graphic equalizer blocks
2 Global graphic EQs
2 or 3-band EQ on many effects (Drive pedal, Reverb, Delay, etc.)
And probably more.
 
I try to only use the output EQ for tweaking per venue....and make sure to keep it flat for all preset tweaking (GEQ, PEQ, internal effect EQ for "my sound")
 
my 2 cents...being a club rat, many times sound checks are stressed for time and without a doubt the acoustic qualities of most stages leave a lot to be desired. During the course of a 50 minute set, sometimes the 1st song of the set IS the sound check, and many times there is necessary stage tweaking of stage amp tone and level during the first frantic moments of the set or the first song or two. I can see the value of a dedicated Parametric EQ or 3 band eq so that you can grab a couple of knobs to make quick on-the-fly adjustments. IMO, nothing is worse than that uncomfortable feeling of not being able to get your sound to sit in the "stage mix" where you're standing, and having to grin and bear it when you can't hear yourself adequately.

The Axe-FxII allows you to set up the A/B/C/D knobs and assign them to, for example, a filter block's level. Better would be direct control of an Amp Block's Bass/Mid/Treble and/or Presence/Level so that these tweaks can be made from the Axe-Fx itself. The A/B/C/D knob feature unfortunately does not exist on the Ultra/Standard. Other than that, all the Axe-Fx products have PLENTY of tone shaping tools.
 
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+1 jimfist

If you are using the EQ's for patch tweaking, there are a plenty :)

If you are planning on using some EQ during soundchecks, It really comes down to what your setup / soundchecks are like.

Sometimes when in a hurry, I just get *stuck* in a set with something whack and have to force a smile and wait till break to fix it.

Richard
 
having being a user of rack multi-fx units of many kinds for many years... the issue is never not having enough ways to eq your tone...
the issue tends to be accessibility...

you have an 8 hour drive to the next gig.. you arrive at sound check a late.. you need to dial into the venue and volume you'll be playing at quickly and easily...
I use a small mixer for this [keeps the rack weight down cos I can throw it in my suit case]..
as I perform my individual sound check I can dial in my volume and basic eq quickly and easily...
during the whole band's sound check [and during the show if need be] I can make adjustments really easily too... just like walking up to an amp and giving it a lil' tweak..

I see that the Axe2 has a 10 band graphic assigned to the outputs...
as I'm still in the 'waiting list' partition of the Axe2 users community, I really have no idea how easy they are to get at
and a 10 band graphic is really for fine tuning... not good for 'quick and dirty' alterations on stage
it'd be cool if the 4 knobs [A, B, C, D] on the front could have something like bass, mid, treble, presence assigned to them for 'walk up to the amp and make a quick tweak' style changes for the unit as a whole...
 
my 2 cents...being a club rat, many times sound checks are stressed for time and without a doubt the acoustic qualities of most stages leave a lot to be desired. During the course of a 50 minute set, sometimes the 1st song of the set IS the sound check, and many times there is necessary stage tweaking of stage amp tone and level during the first frantic moments of the set or the first song or two. I can see the value of a dedicated Parametric EQ or 3 band eq so that you can grab a couple of knobs to make quick on-the-fly adjustments. IMO, nothing is worse than that uncomfortable feeling of not being able to get your sound to sit in the "stage mix" where you're standing, and having to grin and bear it when you can't hear yourself adequately.

The Axe-FxII allows you to set up the A/B/C/D knobs and assign them to, for example, a filter block's level. Better would be direct control of an Amp Block's Bass/Mid/Treble and/or Presence/Level so that these tweaks can be made from the Axe-Fx itself. The A/B/C/D knob feature unfortunately does not exist on the Ultra/Standard. Other than that, all the Axe-Fx products have PLENTY of tone shaping tools.

aaahhh... I missed this.....

we clearly have had similar experiences as working muso types...

so I'm gonna totally +1 ya
 
aaahhh... I missed this.....

we clearly have had similar experiences as working muso types...

so I'm gonna totally +1 ya

yup. In the heat of battle, sometimes you just need to have easily accessible KNOBS to do a quick tweak.

To clarify, a dedicated EQ feeding ONLY the STAGE SPEAKER SYSTEM (output 2) is what i'm talking about. You'd want to keep a direct feed from the Axe-Fx to the FOH mains (output 1) intact so as not to start an EQ tug-o-war with the FOH mixer. To follow through with that thought as it applies to the A/B/C/D controls on the AxeII, it would seem, then, that you'd want the knobs to control EQ that is in the stage speaker system (output 2) signal path to avoid the aforementioned conflict with FOH mixer.

I can imagine that soon there will be FRFR powered speaker systems aimed at the amp modeling community that DO HAVE these tone controls on the FRONT of the speaker system so that they may be tweaked as you traditionally do with a regular guitar amp. As it is now, most powered speaker systems have their volume/tone controls inconveniently located on the BACK of the cabinet - bad if you're using a front end PA speaker, worse still if you're using a wedge placed on the floor.
 
my current rig looks like this

guitar -> VG-99 -> small mixer [for easy access to basic EQ / level control on stage] -> Marshall stereo power amp -> pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs

the Axe2 [when it arrives] will replace the VG-99

if the Axe2 knobs could have basic EQ assigned to them [and it looks like the output level is easily controlled from the front panel] the mixer becomes redundant..
and therefore my 'flying weight' decreases by a few kilos [one mixer and it's power supply]

fingers crossed eh that some 'master EQ' assignable to the front panel knobs will show up in a future firmware release....
cos it's a simple feature and a pretty fundamental requirement for folk that play live..
 
my 2 cents...being a club rat, many times sound checks are stressed for time and without a doubt the acoustic qualities of most stages leave a lot to be desired. During the course of a 50 minute set, sometimes the 1st song of the set IS the sound check, and many times there is necessary stage tweaking of stage amp tone and level during the first frantic moments of the set or the first song or two. I can see the value of a dedicated Parametric EQ or 3 band eq so that you can grab a couple of knobs to make quick on-the-fly adjustments. IMO, nothing is worse than that uncomfortable feeling of not being able to get your sound to sit in the "stage mix" where you're standing, and having to grin and bear it when you can't hear yourself adequately.

I see what you are saying, yet I disagree. :)
I also played many, many gigs in all kinds of locations, from shaky make-shift 'stages' to large size venues and everything in between.
If you have a soundcheck and an FOH engineer that knows what he is doing, messing with the tone or volume in the middle of the gig will most certainly not be an improvement for the audience, since you are most likely adressing issues that the FOH has already taken care of.
If the choice is between stage sound and FOH sound I always vote for the FOH - the audience paid money to get in and you should be able to get through a gig with less then ideal on stage sound (let's face it, it's almost always like that). I've seen bands spend more than an hour with a soundcheck only to see them crumble when it was showtime.
My band worked out a soundcheck procedure that enabled us to do a complete check of drums, bass, vox and 2 guitars within 10mins.

If the room is 'difficult' (odd sounding, boomy, shrill, etc.) you can't really do much about it. With EQ, you'd be addressing timing issues (reflective surfaces and phase cancellations) in the frequency domain, which is although popular, pointless. All you can do is run the PA so loud that the room sound won't be noticed anymore. No kidding.

It all boils down to preparation. Our admittedly rather large rehearsal space always gave us a good idea of what we really sound like as a band and we recorded pretty much every rehearsal. Zoom H2 recorder in surround mode, pick a good spot and you'll learn a lot when listening to the recordings. Once you get your presets/settings to a point where everything is audible with the vocal riding on top you know you have found your balance.

so in short (haha) extra EQ? pointless IMHO. Fix it at the source, at the right time - not right before or 'gasp' in the middle of a gig.
 
I totally see what you are saying but..
most of the gigs I play are overseas...
it means I can't take my own cabs...

my rider say that I need 2 Marshall 1960B cabs..
I don't always get them...
means that I occasionally have a few lil' tweaks to make during the soundcheck
that said... after the sound check, I don't touch anything [if I need to it's very rare]

I set my live presets up in a rehearsal studio on my own at gig volumes so I have them 90% dialled in before I first rehearse them with the band..
during that rehearsal I'll fine tune them...
so I'm pretty well prepped..
 
If you have a soundcheck and an FOH engineer that knows what he is doing...

This is the point. Not all of us have the luxury of a sound check administered by a competent FOH mixer with a quality PA system. I'm not going to get into a p*ssing match over how things that are perfectly set during a thorough sound check can drastically change between sound check and performance (can you say "movable partitions"?). Again, I'm talking about tweaking EQ/Tone for the stage speaker only, and assuming that a split signal leaves the send to the FOH position unchanged. In a club of 500 capacity with an adequately kicking PA system, a side-filled stage speaker box's tone ain't going to matter for SQUAT to the sound in an audience once people fill the room and the PA starts cranking. In this case, the stage speaker is pretty much for ME and MY ears, and perhaps a bit for the rest of the band who are in close enough proximity for it to matter - otherwise, the stage foldback system gets them what they want.

The OP asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer that actually does work for ME. If you would like to turn this into a debate regarding the validity of a musician's desire to "pointlessly" turn tone knobs during a performance, that's up to you. I'm sure there are plenty of players who use traditional amps who might disagree with you. Simple fact is that I'd "prefer" to turn a simple physical knob - for WHATEVER REASON I DAMN WELL PLEASE! - than have to endure the editing process of button clicks, especially when the edit time window is just a few seconds. Period. End of "my" story.

Wishlist item for the AxeFx owner's manuals: "Do not attempt to EQ your tone on stage during a performance, as this is a pointless task." Great. That ought to cover it. Now everyone's happy. 8)
 
This is the point. Not all of us have the luxury of a sound check administered by a competent FOH mixer with a quality PA system. I'm not going to get into a p*ssing match over how things that are perfectly set during a thorough sound check can drastically change between sound check and performance (can you say "movable partitions"?). Again, I'm talking about tweaking EQ/Tone for the stage speaker only, and assuming that a split signal leaves the send to the FOH position unchanged. In a club of 500 capacity with an adequately kicking PA system, a side-filled stage speaker box's tone ain't going to matter for SQUAT to the sound in an audience once people fill the room and the PA starts cranking. In this case, the stage speaker is pretty much for ME and MY ears, and perhaps a bit for the rest of the band who are in close enough proximity for it to matter - otherwise, the stage foldback system gets them what they want.

The OP asked a simple question. I gave a simple answer that actually does work for ME. If you would like to turn this into a debate regarding the validity of a musician's desire to "pointlessly" turn tone knobs during a performance, that's up to you. I'm sure there are plenty of players who use traditional amps who might disagree with you. Simple fact is that I'd "prefer" to turn a simple physical knob - for WHATEVER REASON I DAMN WELL PLEASE! - than have to endure the editing process of button clicks, especially when the edit time window is just a few seconds. Period. End of "my" story.

Wishlist item for the AxeFx owner's manuals: "Do not attempt to EQ your tone on stage during a performance, as this is a pointless task." Great. That ought to cover it. Now everyone's happy. 8)

too much coffee or too little sleep? :)

I was talking about my experiences, no idea why you feel like I attacked you personally. is having a different opinion now a criminal offense?
 
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wow... this is getting a little fierce...

Jim - I totally agree with your requirements..

Don - I do completely understand your perspective here but it won't quite work for me personally....
I play places that range from clubs [just a few hundred people] to open air festivals [several thousand people]..
and I like to have immediate access to the basics.. consider it a "just in case" thing...

from what I've seen so far, this is a really cool forum...
lots of nice, really helpful, smart and well informed guys in here....
how's about we all play nice eh??
 
ok... maybe fierce wasn't the right choice of word...

but I have hung out before in places where things kick off real quick and get quite nasty too...

this place though is as cool as you like...

I don't even have my Axe yet...
but I really like it here..
and as a noob I feel like I've been made real welcome
 
too much coffee or too little sleep? :)

I was talking about my experiences, no idea why you feel like I attacked you personally. is having a different opinion now a criminal offense?

and here's your post before you edited it:

I was talking about my experiences, no idea why you feel like I attacked you personally.
This forum is turning into kindergarten quickly...

I'm glad you edited the post, Don. You appear to be a better person than to post something like that.

Point taken, the tone of my post was a bit sharp in places. Just venting a little frustration perhaps that much of your post had to do with the VALIDITY of the technique, rather than the REASONS WHY someone might apply outboard EQ with an Axe-FX. The thread got sidetracked into a debate on this question. Evidently, Clarky and I are on the same page...you and I are not. Oh well. Agree to disagree. ;)
 
I can imagine that soon there will be FRFR powered speaker systems aimed at the amp modeling community that DO HAVE these tone controls on the FRONT of the speaker system so that they may be tweaked as you traditionally do with a regular guitar amp. As it is now, most powered speaker systems have their volume/tone controls inconveniently located on the BACK of the cabinet - bad if you're using a front end PA speaker, worse still if you're using a wedge placed on the floor.

Cool idea... but wouldn't a quick global EQ adjustment for OP-2 do the same job and be just as easy?
 
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