IRs for amp-in-the-room / far field (through Studio Monitors)

Surjikal

Surjikal

Member
The cabs sound amazing in-the-mix when I record stuff, but there's something missing when I want to just jam with my studio monitors. Right now, I use the air / room params to get close, and I also use the stock JM / room IRs.

I'm looking for more suggestions for good IRs, specifically with studio monitors in mind, to get that amp-in-the-room sound (as opposed to the face-next-to-cab sound).
 
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“Amp in the room” is literally the sound bouncing off your walls in the room at that moment. Only reverb or some other type of reflection effect can simulate that. You can’t make sound appear to bounce behind you only from speakers in front of you at low volumes.
 
Get an second set of monitors and face them away from your main monitors. You’ll get sound dispersion far more like an open back cabinet
 
What you want is a real cab. You can use your Axe-Fx so that the FOH/studio in will still hear that line signal that you like and place another output before the cabinet block on the Axe-Fx to go to a power amp that's driving the cab. Something cheap will do like EHX Magnum 44 and a Harley Benton 2x12 with V30s.

You can't change the physics of a PA speaker to be like a guitar speaker by feeding a different EQ to it.
 
I use far field IRs for everything. In my experience it is like having an optimised version of the amp-in-the-room experience. You can have your preferred sweet spot projected everywhere, without it getting muddy, phasey or ice-picky just because your head is in the wrong spot. If I compare an IR I have captured to my real cab, with my head in a similar position to where the mic was, the sound is remarkably similar.

I'm planning on making mine available in the future. There are very few options for far field IRs out there at the moment, so it is certainly a simpler option to use a real cab at present.
 
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antcarrier said:
with my head in a similar position to where the mic was
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That's essentially the problem of this technique. Capturing a signal like this requires a mic and all mics have characteristics and need to be positioned somewhere so it will not re-create a guitar speaker. You know... good IR's aren't "muddy, phasey or ice-picky". ;)
 
I've had good luck mixing IRs that include different mics (ex. 57 m+ 160) and a Room/Read Mic. I don't understand some of the IR creators NOT including a Rear Mic placement on an Open Back Cabinet...
 
Pretty much none of the current modelers support over 200ms IR lengths which IMO is not enough for room IR's at least, not sure about rear mic placements.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
That's essentially the problem of this technique. Capturing a signal like this requires a mic and all mics have characteristics and need to be positioned somewhere so it will not re-create a guitar speaker. You know... good IR's aren't "muddy, phasey or ice-picky". ;)
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I don't think he's necessarily aiming to do the whole guitar speaker recreation thing that was popular on Fractal years ago. He doesn't use long lengths for his captures either but quite the opposite going for just 20ms I believe. Not sure if you've ever checked out antcarrier's recordings he's posted, but as long as I've been around these forums he's been using far-field captures of his own making and he's got a really great smokey jazz sound going on top of being an outstanding player. It's quite unconventional to what you do Mikko or even myself, but I can't deny he's got something pretty cool going on
 
Sure thing and I hope I don't come across as judgy. It's something that I've tried out quite a bit since I'm always trying to come up with new ideas. What I usually end up with is an IR that is very bass heavy so it's kind of like the in the room sound but that eats up all the power the of the speakers so it's not really going to work with a drummer.
 
Do you have an IR that you could share (one of those bass heavy ones I mean)? I'd love to test it out, maybe it's what I'm looking for. I mostly use the mesa amp models (especially IIC+) for prog metal, if that matters.

I'm purely looking for something I can use for jamming by myself at home on my studio monitors. So there is no drummer to drown out.
 
I know it’s gonna sound like Captain Obvious but what about just using a good set of studio headphones-you’re just talking about playing/practicing along with tracks or even alone.
 
Actually the problem is way worse with headphones. If I put on some kind of backing track, it's fine, but otherwise, the magic's just not there. Sounds meh even with Blue Mi-Fi's. I think it's because the sound doesn't couple with the guitar itself.

By the way, for whatever reason, that new firmware improved the sound quite a bit for me.
 
Close mic'd IRs sound very different than listening to a cab at a distance. For this very reason we have scheduled some studio time for a "Far Field IR Pack". We're going to try a variety of techniques to try and capture some far-field IRs. Technically you need a large space where the reflections occur after the IR has finished, like an airplane hanger or something but I've got some ideas on how to do it in a studio.
 
FractalAudio said:
Close mic'd IRs sound very different than listening to a cab at a distance. For this very reason we have scheduled some studio time for a "Far Field IR Pack". We're going to try a variety of techniques to try and capture some far-field IRs. Technically you need a large space where the reflections occur after the IR has finished, like an airplane hanger or something but I've got some ideas on how to do it in a studio.
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it'll be the first airplane hanger built in a studio ever :O

but in seriousness, can an IR even produce the "far-field" thing people want? they all want "amp in the room" right? isn't that way more time than an IR can hold/produce?

i feel like people want it to sound like the sound is coming from the back of the speaker, from a speaker that's designed to give sound only from the front and disperse it 90 degrees to an audience over 30+ feet away.

that said, i don't know much about IRs honestly. i pick what sounds good and stick with them. definitely down to learn.
 
FractalAudio said:
Close mic'd IRs sound very different than listening to a cab at a distance. For this very reason we have scheduled some studio time for a "Far Field IR Pack". We're going to try a variety of techniques to try and capture some far-field IRs. Technically you need a large space where the reflections occur after the IR has finished, like an airplane hanger or something but I've got some ideas on how to do it in a studio.
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I'm intrigued by the thought of how you might accomplish that. Just a couple artificial ways that initially spring to mind would be to take a highly accurate reverb capture of the room at the position where your cab mics are placed, and then remove that sound from individual cab impulses. Possibly a large enough room with baffles in ever corner and lining every wall
 
Far-Field IR pack sounds awesome, insta buy for sure. For recording, can't you do this in some sort of Anechoic Chamber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber) instead of racing the reflection? I really know nothing about this, honest question.

I guess the problem is, when I'm playing with monitors, they're pointed right at my face. So, it's like I'm pointing the cab at my face. I realize now that I could probably move my monitors to be closer to my feet, and it would probably get me closer to the sound I'm looking for.

But why can't an IR do this for me? Is there not an IR where the mic is placed 2-3 feet away from the cab (ear level)? That's a far-field IR right? I feel like that + maybe the room settings would be exactly what I'm looking for. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it and I can do it via EQ.
 
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FractalAudio said:
Close mic'd IRs sound very different than listening to a cab at a distance. For this very reason we have scheduled some studio time for a "Far Field IR Pack". We're going to try a variety of techniques to try and capture some far-field IRs. Technically you need a large space where the reflections occur after the IR has finished, like an airplane hanger or something but I've got some ideas on how to do it in a studio.
Click to expand...

I'd totally buy that pack if it turns out to be what it is supposed to. In the mean time I found those Ownhammer mid-field IRs to be a good compromise. Not as direct and more "in the room" as close-mic'ed IRs and less annoying reflections than room captures.
 
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