IRs are 90% of the sound

Have you tried using the high and low cut settings in the Cab block? All you are doing with a "speaker before a speaker" is EQing...

Have you ever listened to isolated recorded guitar tracks? They sound very different from what they sound like in the mix, and often sound quite bad on their own.

"All you are doing with a "speaker before a speaker" is EQing..." LOLOLOLOL.

C'mon man. Come on. I just listened to some of your tunes. Where's your lead tone? Before we continue I need some proof. I put my audio sample up to be criticized, do the same and I'll take you seriously. No, it's not just an Eq before a speaker.

I have everyone of Van Halens Isolated guitar tracks, if you think the following sounds bad, then we are simply operating from two completely different aesthetic realms. Apples and Oranges.



from the comments section:

"I'll put this single guitar track up against anything any guitar player has done.. It's got it all.. Tone, aggression, swing, virtuosity and a godlike control of the instrument.. Downright SCARY to other guitarists.. Sure, There's lots of guys who play faster, more technical.. But nobody has topped Ed's ability to put it all together without ever being predictable or repetitive."

Bingo!
 
"All you are doing with a "speaker before a speaker" is EQing..." LOLOLOLOL.

C'mon man. Come on. I just listened to some of your tunes. Where's your lead tone? Before we continue I need some proof. I put my audio sample up to be criticized, do the same and I'll take you seriously. No, it's not just an Eq before a speaker.

I have everyone of Van Halens Isolated guitar tracks, if you think the following sounds bad, then we are simply operating from two completely different aesthetic realms. Apples and Oranges.



from the comments section:

"I'll put this single guitar track up against anything any guitar player has done.. It's got it all.. Tone, aggression, swing, virtuosity and a godlike control of the instrument.. Downright SCARY to other guitarists.. Sure, There's lots of guys who play faster, more technical.. But nobody has topped Ed's ability to put it all together without ever being predictable or repetitive."

Bingo!

I have no need or reason to criticize your recording.

I'm not sure what my recordings have to do with this discussion? There are plenty of lead tones in them... Some recorded with an analog rig and some with an Axe Fx II.

I really don't care if you "take me seriously"... I have nothing to prove.

I've tried to explain some of your misconceptions but you don't seem to want to know about that, so feel free to carry on with them.
 
"All you are doing with a "speaker before a speaker" is EQing..." LOLOLOLOL.

C'mon man. Come on. I just listened to some of your tunes. Where's your lead tone? Before we continue I need some proof. I put my audio sample up to be criticized, do the same and I'll take you seriously. No, it's not just an Eq before a speaker.

I have everyone of Van Halens Isolated guitar tracks, if you think the following sounds bad, then we are simply operating from two completely different aesthetic realms. Apples and Oranges.



from the comments section:

"I'll put this single guitar track up against anything any guitar player has done.. It's got it all.. Tone, aggression, swing, virtuosity and a godlike control of the instrument.. Downright SCARY to other guitarists.. Sure, There's lots of guys who play faster, more technical.. But nobody has topped Ed's ability to put it all together without ever being predictable or repetitive."

Bingo!


I cant wait to see how this plays out
 
Ah, okay.

Is it possible to turn the speaker section in the amp completely off? My guess is that it will sound awful, just going through the cab section. Here, I'll put my money where my mouth is. The only way I could get this non-fizzy tone was by putting a speaker before a speaker, or an IR before an IR. I can't describe technically why this worked, it just did. This is from free online software...

You could use the resistive load box for a speaker. I’m away from my unit but pretty sure it’s available on the speaker amp block page. That would remove a speaker from the equation. Then you can form an opinion on how it sounds. Probably not good.

It’s funny, the differing opinions about the amp block speaker not being a speaker. Depends on how you look at it I guess. It’s not technically a speaker yes but it is an electrically modeled speaker for the amp to react to. Makes no difference to me as long as it sounds good.

The harshness is often posted about. Reducing highs by using some of the many available options is how to deal with that. You can increase the mic distance in the cab block which acts as a high cut. The ability to move the mic in the other 2 axis as suggested would be cool. It would require a new way of making and using IRs I would think. That said, we are stuck with what we have so make it work. I think it works pretty damn good once you figure it out.
 
Todays racket-making. Van Halen "House of Pain"- "Panama" - "Hang em High" ... trying really hard to get the bottom to punch while leaving air in the high-end.


Do you put your take on a loop, so you can A/B your track with VH's while making adjustments?
You're getting there, but your HOP track sounds more "air-ey", and I'm not sure if that's because of too much ambience, or not enough low end, etc.
You have great feel for copping Eddie's playing dude!

Edit: Whenever I hear these raw tracks, it makes me appreciate DLR's job in finding the right spaces to work in his vocals. With Eddie always filling so much space, seems like it wasn't an easy task. Eddie & Alex jamming away, basically creating songs you could enjoy listening to with just the 2 of them playing, and nothing else!
 
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Do you put your take on a loop, so you can A/B your track with VH's while making adjustments?
You're getting there, but your HOP track sounds more "air-ey", and I'm not sure if that's because of too much ambience, or not enough low end, etc.
You have great feel for copping Eddie's playing dude!
Thanks man.

For me A/B-ing is the Target. I'm not there yet, I'm also avoiding doing it because I don't want to get depressed. ha.

I'm working on getting chunk going above 250 ( so I'm "Mixable"), also tons of time spent getting gain without smear, iow, articulate gain, that's a ton of time. Still fighting with Reverb and the effect it has on EQ. Tried out some different Power Amp tubes, played with preamp tubes. The biggest thing I found out that may be of use to people is the following. In the amp, on the preamp page, even if you turn off both switches ( I can't remember their names right now) it still has a massive effect on the tonal quality. So, don't think "Off" is off, it isn't. I worked a lot in that section today.

P.S. About Roth finding a way to sing over HOP, totally agree. Ed is really busy sometimes.
 
Thanks man.

For me A/B-ing is the Target. I'm not there yet, I'm also avoiding doing it because I don't want to get depressed. ha.
Dude! You got Eddie going on more than 90% of the players out there. I wouldn't worry about that. (Unless it's the tone aspect, which I guess I could see that wearing a person down. When I feel that way, I switch to something totally different. haha)
In the amp, on the preamp page, even if you turn off both switches ( I can't remember their names right now) it still has a massive effect on the tonal quality. So, don't think "Off" is off, it isn't. I worked a lot in that section today.
There's 4 switches on that page: Boost, Sat, Fat, & Cut. I'm working on some Petrucci 16th-note syncopation riffs @ 130bpm, which requires a tight tone, so I just went in there myself, and first tried turning off the Boost, but it was too much. But rolling off the level tightened things up nicely. Lots of combinations for sure.
 
Todays racket-making. Van Halen "House of Pain"- "Panama" - "Hang em High" ... trying really hard to get the bottom to punch while leaving air in the high-end.



Daaang not too far off in tone. Good job on those riffs. It’s a little bright and needs some beef but really you’re pretty close. Need to find a way to thicken it up and kill off some top end without losing the air. Not seeing the preset makes it tough to make suggestions. Fat switch on, increase cab proximity, adjust bright cap value. Maybe lower the hi frequency on the speaker page. There’s an Austin Buddy brown sound preset packaged with the FM3 factory presets. Did you try that? This is the problem with having so many ways to adjust the amp, is that it’s easy to get trapped into an endless tweaking mania. Keep plugging you’re well on your way.
 
Dude! You got Eddie going on more than 90% of the players out there. I wouldn't worry about that. (Unless it's the tone aspect, which I guess I could see that wearing a person down. When I feel that way, I switch to something totally different. haha)

There's 4 switches on that page: Boost, Sat, Fat, & Cut. I'm working on some Petrucci 16th-note syncopation riffs @ 130bpm, which requires a tight tone, so I just went in there myself, and first tried turning off the Boost, but it was too much. But rolling off the level tightened things up nicely. Lots of combinations for sure.
Preamp.jpg

Thanks for the kind words skolacki and TSJMajesty.

These were my settings.

You can see input boost and preamp sag are off. Well, they still worked a bit, even when off.

Tube Hardness is something I constantly play with on all the pages. Oftentimes I'll turn it off in preamp and make-up for it in the Pwr tubes section. The hardness and bias make big differences to the sharpness of the tone. Too much Tube hardness and you lose the note entirely. I don't mind it for rhythm, but for alternate picking, semi-mute stuff, I don't like what it does. Also, in the Speaker page I set the response to Soft, no compression, maybe a bit of drive. Bass, and Depth are tricky if you want the tight tone, which I do. I find I'm lowering Bass in the Ideal Page, and adding a touch of Depth.

Overall, I like turning things off, or removing them.

If you get a tight tone going TSJMajesty, let me know about it, that is what I'm striving for.
 
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View attachment 105494

Thanks for the kind words skolacki and TSJMajesty.

These were my settings.

You can see input boost and preamp sag are off. Well, they still worked a bit, even when off.

Tube Hardness is something I constantly play with on all the pages. Oftentimes I'll turn it off in preamp and make-up for it in the Pwr tubes section. The hardness and bias make big differences to the sharpness of the tone. Too much Tube hardness and you lose the note entirely. I don't mind it for rhythm, but for alternate picking, semi-mute stuff, I don't like what it does. Also, in the Speaker page I set the response to Soft, no compression, maybe a bit of drive. Bass, and Depth are tricky if you want the tight tone, which I do. I find I'm lowering Bass in the Ideal Page, and adding a touch of Depth.

Overall, I like turning things off, or removing them.

If you get a tight tone going TSJMajesty, let me know about it, that is what I'm striving for.


Your Saturation boost appears to be on. Not sure why there isn’t a ‘switch’ like there is for the boost. Click in the box where it says ideal-on and turn it off. It’s diode clipping and I use it myself but assigned to a control switch. With the Saturation on your input boost probably won’t sound too good. I rarely run both at once. You can dial down some high end with the triode plate frequency knobs. These model triode plate resistor bypass caps. Turning them down will bleed off some highs. Also increase the preamp bias, you may like it running hotter and no need to worry about baking tubes. For the input boost (you’ll be able to really hear it when you turn off the saturation) cycle through the types. They’re all eq’d differently and you’ll find one that works for your preset. Best luck!

Edit: maybe the Saturation is off. Can’t remember what on or off looks like and no time to boot my gear up. Check it out anyhow.
 
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If you get a tight tone going TSJMajesty, let me know about it, that is what I'm striving for.
Based on what you're tweaking, I doubt I have the fine-tuning abilities you have, or your ear. Plus, I'm not trying to get as close to another player's tone as it seems you are. I tend to bounce between a few factory presets I've tweaked, and then just play. The freakin thing sounds so damn good, that I generally can't mess with too much before I just wanna get to playing.

Plus, a whole lot more people here have a lot more knowledge of how to tighten up a tone than I do. What I can suggest is start a new thread with your best clip so far, and ask for suggestions specific to what you're after. I think you'd get some more eyeballs that way.
 
What I can suggest is start a new thread with your best clip so far, and ask for suggestions specific to what you're after. I think you'd get some more eyeballs that way.

Excellent idea. @Marantz attach your preset or screenshot all the amp block and cab pages along with your post. I’m a year and half in to this thing but still a lot to learn.
 
View attachment 105494

Thanks for the kind words skolacki and TSJMajesty.

These were my settings.

You can see input boost and preamp sag are off. Well, they still worked a bit, even when off.

Tube Hardness is something I constantly play with on all the pages. Oftentimes I'll turn it off in preamp and make-up for it in the Pwr tubes section. The hardness and bias make big differences to the sharpness of the tone. Too much Tube hardness and you lose the note entirely. I don't mind it for rhythm, but for alternate picking, semi-mute stuff, I don't like what it does. Also, in the Speaker page I set the response to Soft, no compression, maybe a bit of drive. Bass, and Depth are tricky if you want the tight tone, which I do. I find I'm lowering Bass in the Ideal Page, and adding a touch of Depth.

Overall, I like turning things off, or removing them.

If you get a tight tone going TSJMajesty, let me know about it, that is what I'm striving for.
The Preamp Boost switch is only related to Boost Type and Boost Level. When it is OFF there should be NO effect from either of those controls.

The Preamp Sag only controls that parameter. The other knobs are not related. In a normal "amp" this is usually ON. Turning it off simulates separated pre and power amps.
 
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