IR Loading Question- I'm Puzzled!

C

CoryJuba

Inspired
I am playing through an identical IR mix I made through two different loading platforms and it's yielding different results. Can anyone, perhaps Cliff or Kevin, shine some light on this situation for me?

I have the Ownhammer Justin York pack and made a 212 mix. I am using the same .wavs to work with in each platform. When I disable the cab block in the Axe and load the IR mix in Two Notes Wall of Sound, I get much more attack, more articulate high end, and the guitar sounds significantly more present and alive. When I make the same mix in Cab Lab and load it to the Axe-Fx, it seems smaller, more boxy, and having less attack.

Does anyone know what is going on here? Feel free to download the example to hear without file compression.

First is loaded through Wall of Sound and the second is rendered to Axe-Fx Ultra-res.

Thanks, guys!


 
If you are using the .wav directly in CabLab, try using Tools -> wav to syx to convert the files first before mixing.

Make sure min phase and auto trim are off when you do the conversion.

Then load the resulting .syx files and do the mix that way.
 
Curious about your signal path with the Axe Fx and WOS. Are you just using the Axe as your DI interface via USB and monitoring the output from the Axe Fx via the WOS plugin or in an FX loop? I've thought about using a system like this to listen and record long duration IRs.
 
its does seem a lil more muffled in Axe Fx ,but it probably a setting or conversion somewhere ,

if not it should be pretty easy to tone match them identical and do a lil eq .

Btw great sounding preset
 
barhrecords said:
If you are using the .wav directly in CabLab, try using Tools -> wav to syx to convert the files first before mixing.

Make sure min phase and auto trim are off when you do the conversion.

Then load the resulting .syx files and do the mix that way.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll give that a go. Thanks!

I'll let you know what I find.
 
CoryJuba said:
Okay, I'll give that a go. Thanks!

I'll let you know what I find.
Click to expand...
It's still yielding the same result if I convert to .ir or .sysex first. I can't figure it out. But it makes me only want to use IRs inside of Wall of Sound and not use them in the Axe-Fx. I'd rather this not have to be the case.

Anyone have any other input? Thanks!
 
Are you using the .wav files from the "OH-Justin-York-Collection_Fractal.zip" in the Justin York Collection? The .wav files there are ready to use in Cab-Lab for mixing. If not, download them and test.


barhrecords said:
If you are using the .wav directly in CabLab, try using Tools -> wav to syx to convert the files first before mixing. Then load the resulting .syx files and do the mix that way.
Click to expand...
You should not need to do that. When you load a .wav file into cab-lab and click "Send Mix to Scratchpad" or "Send Mix to User Cab #" it converts the .wav automatically to a .syx file.

Wav2Syx is used to store your mixes in .ir /.syx format in your computer.

barhrecords said:
Make sure min phase and auto trim are off when you do the conversion..
Click to expand...
OH IR's that are in the Fractal .zip are NOT Minimum Phase Transformed, so you must keep this settings default (Min Phase) if you're doing mixes in Cab-Lab.
 
Fl7x said:
OH IR's that are in the Fractal .zip are NOT Minimum Phase Transformed, so you must keep this settings default (Min Phase) if you're doing mixes in Cab-Lab.
Click to expand...
This is correct info. Actually all the above post is correct. To emphasize and confirm, in CabLab3 use the OH Fractal zip waves and mix with MPT enabled (default Processing Mode in CabLab3). Auto-trim is not necessary as the waves within the zip are already prepared. Additional great info can be found on the Wiki here: click me

I'm certain you already know, but also note that Torpedo introduces coloration from it's various modules, so insure they are all off/bypassed. There may still be some coloration after this (not sure if it's true bypass).

Try the above and you should be spot-on.

Regards.
 
Last edited:
MPT is not always necessary.

Some people feel like it removes something desirable from the IR.

When you are mixing only OH IR's in particular, I don't use it.

That's why I convert first, to make sure MTP is off. (Yes I know CabLab can load a .wav directly)

To the OP, since he was hearing a difference, I thought it might be the MPT that was causing the difference.
 
Thanks for the info, guys! But I'm still stuck at square one!

I thought it could it be since it is playing through two IR's separately but simultaneously in Two Notes software whereas the Cab-Lab stuff was "bounced down" to a final, single IR. But I did them separately in the Axe-Fx with two cab blocks and I am still getting the same results. Boxier, less defined top end, etc..

The difference is quite clear in a studio setting. Enough for me to be forced to use one method over the other when this shouldn't be the case. Can anyone else try and see if they have similar results?

Yes, IRs are from the Fractal folder. It is the OH JY MES 212 R 57 D2 and the OH JY MES 212 R 121 (-3) Everything else is at default settings
 
You have a vast number of variables you're working with that should be reduced to isolate the issue. May I suggest:

1) take the Axe processing out of the equation. Example reason: if you're using the Axe with CabBlock bypassed and loading the IR through 3rd party plug in your DAW, it will obviously sound different if there are other blocks in your preset after the CabBlock. You are potentially placing the IR at the very end of the chain and comparing that to the sound where the IR is somewhere in the middle of your chain via the CabBlock. (hope that's clear)

2) make a duplicate of your dry track (preferably in mono) within your DAW and on one of the tracks instantiate CabLab, on the other instantiate whatever other 3rd party loader, then load the same single IR file into both. Now your chain has much fewer variables to work with. Test and if satisfactory then revisit #1 above and sort out your signal chain as you see fit. If not satisfactory then continue to #3 below.

3) as said above, WoS introduces coloration to the loaded IR by design. Bypass all of it's processing (remember CabLab isn't simulating power amp, micing, eq, compression, etc. but WoS is).

4) because of #3 above my immediate suspicion is that WoS is introducing additional coloration, even with it's "processing" bypassed. To verify, you can always try another branded loader on a third dry track as mentioned in #2, again insuring any artificial processing within the plug is off/bypassed. Note that other loaders (including WoS) may not actually be "true bypass" in regards to their additional effect processing.

I'm still on my second cup of coffee, so please understand that I'm only trying to help you isolate your IR issue and not claiming that the above is a "be all end all".
 
Thanks, Savage.
1) Already tried this. Used the same take and re-amped with CabLab inside the box, completely bypassing the Axe. Same result.
2) See #1.
3) Yes, this was implied. The only thing loaded is a user cab. No unnecessary additional power amp sims or EQ.
4) I don't think that Wall of Sound is introducing anything extra. I think things are being taken away during conversion somewhere making it .sysex

I'm still stuck. Anyone want to try and replicate the results? Or suggest something else?

Thanks, guys!
 
CoryJuba said:
Thanks, Savage.
1) Already tried this. Used the same take and re-amped with CabLab inside the box, completely bypassing the Axe. Same result.
2) See #1.
3) Yes, this was implied. The only thing loaded is a user cab. No unnecessary additional power amp sims or EQ.
4) I don't think that Wall of Sound is introducing anything extra. I think things are being taken away during conversion somewhere making it .sysex

I'm still stuck. Anyone want to try and replicate the results? Or suggest something else?

Thanks, guys!
Click to expand...

thats strange , think you may need expert help from Cab lab guys to investigate this one further ..

Do you notice this with Redwirz ,Rosen try different Ir's and covert them see if ALL sounds different in WOS .If it's only OH then I would PM Kevin as you have the issue traced to those IR's
 
Considering the only potential difference in your IR comparison is the sample length, there should be absolutely no sonic difference at the same exact 170ms. How about throwing a sine wave through both with one in opposite phase and compare? That should give you good info on what's going on. I'm still under the impression that WoS introduces coloration as that is really the whole point of that plug. Also, try another straight-up 3rd party loader to assist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom