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IR Length

NeoSound

Fractal Fanatic
Is there a way to cut a set width slice (kinda a Q control) out of an ir? Maybe even a slider to choose the start and end point of the range? And hopefully monitor the results in real time?
 

gigsup

New Member
Is there a way to cut a set width slice (kinda a Q control) out of an ir? Maybe even a slider to choose the start and end point of the range? And hopefully monitor the results in real time?

Time domain.

High Cut and Low Cut.

Frequency domain.

The best way to proceed is to begin with the best possible data.
If you know that an IR of a speaker you've swept has reflections affecting its frequency response, take the steps acoustically necessary to insure that there are no reflections or diffractions within the measurement window.
 

Rex

Legend!
Time domain.



Frequency domain.

The best way to proceed is to begin with the best possible data.
If you know that an IR of a speaker you've swept has reflections affecting its frequency response, take the steps acoustically necessary to insure that there are no reflections or diffractions within the measurement window.
Heh. I read “kinda a Q control,” and figured he wanted to pare away frequencies.
 

shatteredsquare

Power User
Time domain.

the IR alignment knob used to do that back in january, FW 2.05, it would slide the IR inside the fixed window, you could hear it move even with just 1 IR active, you could slide it over until you could hear it line up, with most of the OH non MPT ones I was using the voodoo was putting the main bump on about 1ms, it lined up in phase and came into automatic focus like you would n o t b e l e i v e. Alignment knob doesn't do anything any more if you're only got one IR active. You can trim the length with the length preset selection but it's fixed to 256/512/1024/max...no front/back length trim knobs yet...front/back trim knobs would be super powerful, you could tune any IR to respond just the way you like...high/low cut knobs work great but the IR window changing the time domain is so much better way to EQ everything, when you get it lined up right, getting stuff in phase is like getting the mic in the right spot, everything balances out to where you've got all the lows, all the highs, low-mids are scooped in the right spot, clear as a bell and strong at the same time...no EQ necessary

IR allignment.JPG.png
 

NeoSound

Fractal Fanatic
the IR alignment knob used to do that back in january, FW 2.05, it would slide the IR inside the fixed window, you could hear it move even with just 1 IR active, you could slide it over until you could hear it line up, with most of the OH non MPT ones I was using the voodoo was putting the main bump on about 1ms, it lined up in phase and came into automatic focus like you would n o t b e l e i v e. Alignment knob doesn't do anything any more if you're only got one IR active. You can trim the length with the length preset selection but it's fixed to 256/512/1024/max...no front/back length trim knobs yet...front/back trim knobs would be super powerful, you could tune any IR to respond just the way you like...high/low cut knobs work great but the IR window changing the time domain is so much better way to EQ everything, when you get it lined up right, getting stuff in phase is like getting the mic in the right spot, everything balances out to where you've got all the lows, all the highs, low-mids are scooped in the right spot, clear as a bell and strong at the same time...no EQ necessary

View attachment 60019

Hopefully that option will return. Seems really usefull to fine tune ir response.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
the IR alignment knob used to do that back in january, FW 2.05, it would slide the IR inside the fixed window, you could hear it move even with just 1 IR active, you could slide it over until you could hear it line up, with most of the OH non MPT ones I was using the voodoo was putting the main bump on about 1ms, it lined up in phase and came into automatic focus like you would n o t b e l e i v e. Alignment knob doesn't do anything any more if you're only got one IR active. You can trim the length with the length preset selection but it's fixed to 256/512/1024/max...no front/back length trim knobs yet...front/back trim knobs would be super powerful, you could tune any IR to respond just the way you like...high/low cut knobs work great but the IR window changing the time domain is so much better way to EQ everything, when you get it lined up right, getting stuff in phase is like getting the mic in the right spot, everything balances out to where you've got all the lows, all the highs, low-mids are scooped in the right spot, clear as a bell and strong at the same time...no EQ necessary

View attachment 60019
If only one IR is active all the alignment was doing was adding delay. It didn't change the trim point, that moved in the same direction. As all it was doing was adding unnecessary latency so the "feature" was removed.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
that feature was magic! it worked so well to compensate for different IR lead times when you aren't using MPT, get the impulse to sit right where it should be in time space, while keeping all the clarity of non-MPT IRs...
It didn't do anything but add latency. There is no such thing as "time space". You can achieve the same effect by moving further away from your monitors. Read what I wrote again, several times if necessary.
 

shatteredsquare

Power User
Unit won't boot up (just black screen) with 2.04/2.05b/2.05...2.03 boots but doesn't have the alignment page and mic distance doesn't do the thing. One IR and the "totally flat" IR let's you slide the one IR and gives all kinds of phase shift...but I don't think "totally flat" means actual pass through...otherwise I'm having more auditory hallucinations. I'll come back to this window thing 🙃...got to go back to work 🤨
 

shatteredsquare

Power User
Check it out,

IR 1: Factory 2, 312
0.00 dB, pan center
mic distance 0.00

IR 2: Factory 2, 1024
-15.00 dB, pan center
mic distance 0.00

walk IR 1 mic distance out to 60mm, then 155mm, then 230mm, then 270mm. Tell me which one of those nodes sound more natural. Now mute IR 2 and listen to the blanket get put back on it. That's what you could do in 2.05b/2.05 with just one IR... 🧐
 
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shatteredsquare

Power User
Well that was just phase shift effects against what amounts to the same thing as cab 'air', that doesn't count...

But how bout this...

Cab block channel A:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 0.00 mm

Cab block channel B:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 212.2 mm

Cab block channel C:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 264.2 mm

That's two of the same IR lined up exactly, should be identical L/R...makes a huge difference in tonality depending on where you drop the start point...

To really hear the difference turn up super loud and palm mute chug switching from channel A to channel C...
 

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
Well that was just phase shift effects against what amounts to the same thing as cab 'air', that doesn't count...

But how bout this...

Cab block channel A:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 0.00 mm

Cab block channel B:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 212.2 mm

Cab block channel C:
IR 1, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
IR 2, Factory 2 800, pan center, 0.00 dB
both mic distance 264.2 mm

That's two of the same IR lined up exactly, should be identical L/R...makes a huge difference in tonality depending on where you drop the start point...

To really hear the difference turn up super loud and palm mute chug switching from channel A to channel C...
To be sure it really makes a difference record a sample with each one of those settings and listen back.
My guess is that you are just "feeling" the tone differently due to the added latency while playing, but once recorded they will sound the same.
 

Wolfenstein98k

Power User
Why don't IR producers hire out a large enough hall (or aeroplane hangar...) to capture a long sample free of reflections or impurities?

I understand the cost involved is probably prohibitive, but surely you could even just do it on an oval or something. pointed towards the sky?
 

jon

Fractal Fanatic
Why don't IR producers hire out a large enough hall (or aeroplane hangar...) to capture a long sample free of reflections or impurities?

I understand the cost involved is probably prohibitive, but surely you could even just do it on an oval or something. pointed towards the sky?

How would you stop the reflections from the ground?

Keep in mind the speed of sound and the distance involved....

A good studio and an aeroplane hanger would yield similar results due to the speed of sound.

One is cheaper and more accessible though
 

aziz

Power User
Last week's gig would've been suitable for airplane flying, indoor sports hall with almost a full size sports track:
 
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