IR Format 2.0

[hunter]

Anyone know if there are plans to establish a more complex IR standard, that not only samples different Frequencies, but also different Amplitudes?

We all know that speakers (Cab IRs) as well as rooms (Reverb IRs) respond differently when triggered with different amplitudes.

A format like this would obviously require bigger IRs than the old 1024K ones.

I wonder if there is any discussion about this by plugin manufacturers or any other inventors?

 

[Cron]

From what I remember Cliff said he already knows how to do this but its not feasible with current memory and cpu limitations (not just talking about implementing it into the current axe-fx but probably also for the next generation)... I do recall some other standalone cab sim unit which starts to touch on the things you spoke of but cant remember its name. I think it might have something to do with "volterra kernels" but i dont know it thats the exact same thing.

It'll all come... but its gonna be a couple of years still I reckon. Sorry for the vague response.... no one else was chiming in so...

 

[mba]

It's called Nebula.
I've heard samples made with Nebula and the difference is not obvious.
I think a good capture can do the job.

 

[AndrewSimon]

Nebula is promising but somebody needs to take it to the next level.
At it's current version it's a lot of pain for minimal gain ... at best.
It they create a dedicated IR version that runs on a dedicated and optimized DSP,
couple that with some capturing know how and you will have some fabulous results.

I'm sure Cliff will get there one day.
He already nailed the amp section.
The CAB section is the only section left that has plenty of room for improvement.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

He already nailed the amp section.
The CAB section is the only section left that has plenty of room for improvement.

Any audible improvements are already available with no changes to the Axe-Fx. They're called "user IRs." Anything that is missing - I claim it's a lot less than many users apparently believe - can be made up with them.

 

[schnarf]

Reverbs are for all intents and purposes linear. They're not time-invariant due to air flow, people moving around, etc, but it's pretty arguably not an important perceptual difference. Aside from objects in the room buzzing (which isn't desirable to hear anyway), reverb isn't going to stop being linear until you run such a loud signal into it that the air distorts.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Reverbs are for all intents and purposes linear. They're not time-invariant due to air flow, people moving around, etc, but it's pretty arguably not an important perceptual difference. Aside from objects in the room buzzing (which isn't desirable to hear anyway), reverb isn't going to stop being linear until you run such a loud signal into it that the air distorts.

I completely agree, but the cab sims in the Axe-Fx are not intended to replicate reverb. The ~21-ms time window in the Axe-Fx cab sims is long enough to capture the sound of a cab, but it couldn't come close to capturing the sound of any room.

 

[Clawfinger]

+1 to both schnarf and Jay.

With the added "drive" control in the cab block, theoretically it's no difference from the real thing. I've never played a cab loud enough to get it to sound like the drive control on full though.

Posted with TouchBB on my iPhone

 

[marvinx]

Reverbs are for all intents and purposes linear. They're not time-invariant due to air flow, people moving around, etc, but it's pretty arguably not an important perceptual difference. Aside from objects in the room buzzing (which isn't desirable to hear anyway), reverb isn't going to stop being linear until you run such a loud signal into it that the air distorts.

I completely agree, but the cab sims in the Axe-Fx are not intended to replicate reverb. The ~21-ms time window in the Axe-Fx cab sims is long enough to capture the sound of a cab, but it couldn't come close to capturing the sound of any room.

I think this is why i like redwire IR's in Revalver better than i do in the axe. Not only do i get the cab sound i get the room sound which to me is more realistic than any reverb algorithm i have heard. Perceptually this is the difference for me in 99% "there" and 100% "there".

I wish i could magically stick revalver's cab modelling into the axe ( i like their cab distortion simulation).

~mike~

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I think this is why i like redwire IR's in Revalver better than i do in the axe. Not only do i get the cab sound i get the room sound which to me is more realistic than any reverb algorithm i have heard.

Those are two completely separate and distinct issues. Confusing them is counterproductive.

Perceptually this is the difference for me in 99% "there" and 100% "there".

The level of control provided in the current Axe-Fx reverb block enables you to get an equally vivid effect.