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IR "based on xxx loaded with yyy". Are xxx and yyy real?

Piing

Forum Addict
Some IR’s manufacturers say that their product is “Based on xxx loaded with yyy”. Are they selling real captures of the actual cabinet and speaker, or just mimic EQ curves?

IR’s are just complex EQ curves that could be created “based” on what they think it should be, or mixing and retouching other existing IR's, not on the actual capture.

There are also IR’s available for different microphones and preamp consoles, so you can just work all the combinations without actually owning the expensive equipment.

Furthermore, I am wondering why some manufactures do not expose any picture of the beautiful cabs, mikes, preamps and the studio they are using for their captures. They have great demos and elaborated web-sites, but not a single picture of the equipment on which their IR”s are “based”.

Are we victims of an explosion of IR fever? Should we trust only the ones that expose porn pics of the real gear?
 
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Piing

Forum Addict
Or perhaps we may just say "if it sounds OK, its OK"?

But I am wondering if then they should disclose the origin of the IR's (and lower the price)
 

h.c.e.

Veteran
I think the "based on xxx loaded with yyy" wording is to avoid any kind of trademark lawsuit from amp manufacturer xxx or speaker maker yyy... super litigious those xxx and yyy folks.

I think as in all things if the vendor you're giving your money to has a reputable track record and good user reviews, than I wouldn't for second worry about being sold a bill of goods. If you're buying a product from "Crazy Bob's House of Discount Knockoff No Brand Bull", then maybe be a little more suspicious... man I hope Crazy Bob doesn't sue me for using his "House of Discount Knockoff No Brand Bull" trademark. ;)
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Like @h.c.e. said, the "based on ... loaded with... " is only there for legal purposes. You can mention brand names to describe the signal chain used to make captures/tones but you can not use a trademark for marketing purposes and advertising that you are collaborating with a brand. Same goes for pictures, we can't post pictures of the brands at least so that we mention our own products having something to do with the gear used in the pics. In my case there are some pieces of gear that I do a lot of fine tuning on that I never mention because that would be a huge trade secret.

That being said, sure once people start using "based on" type terms it leaves a lot of room for having something completely different within the contents of a pack. I must admit that sometimes some of the products that people put out give me the occasional eyebrow raise. File processing with EQ scripts falsely generating IR files claiming to be different speakers, different microphone positions and different mic pres etc. I just hope no one is doing that. Or even worse, using match EQ of someone else's work and selling it as your own.

I'll just talk for myself. I'm from Finland. I'm sure people don't know our culture but we're the "most honest country in the world". You can leave your car keys in the car. You can leave your doors open in most of our country and no one will break in. We don't need guns to protect ourselves either. The way we're brought up is to hold on tightly to these kind of values. I never lie about what's in my packs.
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
One reason I expose pics is to let people know what they are getting is the real thing as unadulterated as if I was in front of you in the studio placing the mics.

If I am allowed to open the cab up and take gut shots, I do so.
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Yeah, I don't expose my full equipment signal chain, software used, etc. and recording environment as I consider that proprietary trade secrets.

I do have plans to do a photo gallery of the actual mics I use featured on my site at some point (I do give the full list used for a particular pack on a tab for each cab pack on my site). The challenge of that is that I cannot truly expose why I picked certain mics other than to say in 25+ years of recording engineering, I found these mics cover a usable range of tonalities for the widest variety of musical genres. My cab pack documentation included with each purchase links to the manufacturer's published response curve where available for each mic.
 

OldSnail

Inspired
I'll just talk for myself. I'm from Finland. I'm sure people don't know our culture but we're the "most honest country in the world". You can leave your car keys in the car. You can leave your doors open in most of our country and no one will break in. We don't need guns to protect ourselves either. The way we're brought up is to hold on tightly to these kind of values. I never lie about what's in my packs.
Do you mean that you’re still driving a ‘87 Lada and living in one of those black metal hut in the middle of the northern woods ???

The Lada was the only car not stolen in my country and it was back in the 80’s.
And my mom used to let the doors of the house open.
I wouldn’t do this now and let my gear taken away by unknown visitors. And I do not drive a Lada ;-)

But talking about « fake IRs » as we’re using real fake amps called Axe-Fx... hum....:cool:
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Do you mean that you’re still driving a ‘87 Lada and living in one of those black metal hut in the middle of the northern woods ???

The Lada was the only car not stolen in my country and it was back in the 80’s.
And my mom used to let the doors of the house open.
I wouldn’t do this now and let my gear taken away by unknown visitors. And I do not drive a Lada ;-)

But talking about « fake IRs » as we’re using real fake amps called Axe-Fx... hum....:cool:
There's a difference in "you can leave your door open" and "actually leaving your door open". Cmon I don't drive a Lada, I'm an IR millionaire after all. :rolleyes: I've forgotten my car and home door open a few times this year and nothing happened. I've done two around the world trips so I feel I have some kind of a point of reference.

I get your point about "fake IR's". The truth is, the cabinet doesn't really affect the guitar sound much. It's mostly the speaker and another truth be told, the best speakers were made by Celestion over 15 years ago. You can't buy them at a store anymore. How do you advertise something like that? "IR pack of the best speakers in random cabs". :D It most likely would sound a lot better than the newest Mesa 4x12 Oversize McDonald's cabinet but people don't buy packs based on how they sound. People buy the brand names and artist names connected to the packs. I know it's harsh but that's the truth. So if anyone's wondering why I haven't released a pack after working with Guns N' Roses and Periphery on Cab Packs. I'm trying to come up with new ways to top my previous work rather than try and charge you for the same sounds over and over again.

Whatever I do I will not fool you guys. I don't talk smack about the competition these days because it's bad taste and I've noticed that most of the time I just end up giving them free attention. That being said there are some producers out there that use the same speakers and mics and put those speakers in different cabs and give the pack a new name like "Orange Cab Pack" while the sound will be 99% the same especially on close mics. Then charge you for the same sound with different branding. Then there are some people selling Kemper profiles done with other people's IR's... that's pretty mean I have to say. :oops:

So sure IR producers use brand names for marketing and for some people it's really important that "this specific gear" was used for making the sounds. Even at the cost of making IR's that sound worse. :)
 

OldSnail

Inspired
For me, your « best IR in the world » sounds really good and I like it very much. I now know what it is but it did not matter. If you have a « best matching IR » that goes well with it for dual rythm tracks, I’d be glad (and I don’t care the brand ;-)).
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
For me, your « best IR in the world » sounds really good and I like it very much. I now know what it is but it did not matter. If you have a « best matching IR » that goes well with it for dual rythm tracks, I’d be glad (and I don’t care the brand ;-)).
I have actually found the NEW BEST IR IN THE WORLD!! I think I just bought the best cab I've ever owned today. ;)
 

Piing

Forum Addict
I have actually found the NEW BEST IR IN THE WORLD!! I think I just bought the best cab I've ever owned today. ;)

I hope that it is a WEM cab loaded with Fane Crescendo 100w 12" speakers :cool:



A hundred million CAB IR's in the world, but still no one has captured that one :(

http://www.kitrae.net/music/David_Gilmour_Amplifiers_and_Speakers_2.html
http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=70
https://reverb.com/item/14065684-wem-starfinder-4-x-12-with-four-100-watt-crescendos-1969
 
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dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
I hope that it is a WEM cab loaded with Fane Crescendo 100w 12" speakers :cool:



A hundred million CAB IR's in the world, but still no one has captured that one :(

http://www.kitrae.net/music/David_Gilmour_Amplifiers_and_Speakers_2.html
http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=70
https://reverb.com/item/14065684-wem-starfinder-4-x-12-with-four-100-watt-crescendos-1969
The last one I saw for sale was listed for $2,500 with original non-reconed Fanes. That's a tough nut to crack at $7.99 per cab pack.

If anyone in NJ or NY would like to rent me one for a few days at a reasonable price, let's make a deal & PM me.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
The last one I saw for sale was listed for $2,500 with original non-reconed Fanes. That's a tough nut to crack at $7.99 per cab pack.

If anyone in NJ or NY would like to rent me one for a few days at a reasonable price, let's make a deal & PM me.
Some of the "older" guitar dudes in my town have those around. I'll try and ask if I can borrow one at some point but you never know with these older speakers. When I collected pre-Rola cabs for the Brit pack it was like 1 out of 4 speakers that didn't have any coil rub so I had to get a bunch of cabs before finally getting one that was good enough to make a pack out of. So they're not in good condition usually.
 
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