Intonation

HarrySound

HarrySound

Power User
guys im having a bit of trouble setting my Charvel SAN Dimas up.
How do you check for intonation?
Everywhere I've looked has always said tune the open the note then play the 12th fret harmonic, adjust the bridge and then retune.

Surely it would be best to do just that but also fret the 12 fret note too?

I seem to have a problem where I can get most of the guitar to be intimated but as soon as I go up passed the 12th fret toward the 15th-17 area it start to look quite wildly off.
 
Before you start intonating your guitar make sure the string height (at the nut and the bridge) and neck relief are where you want them. Intonation is the last time in setting up a guitar.

1) Tune the guitar the pitch you play at (e.g. standard A440, down a half-step, etc.)
2) Position the guitar the way you play it, not flat on the bench. Doing the later puts a slight stress on the neck.
3) With an accurate tuner (Axe FX, AX-8, strobe tuner) play the harmonic at the 12th fret of the string then play the fretted note. Lots of tuners are not accurate enough to do proper intonation with. Accuracy of +/- 1 cent is not accurate enough in my opinion
4) If the fretted note is sharp, move the saddle back. If the fretted note is flat then move the saddle forward. Bear in mind that moving the saddle with change the the string's pitch so retune after moving it.
5) Repeat for each string
 
use new strings too. also guitars are fundamentally built wrong. that's why they have Buzz Feiten Tuning System, crazy bent frets, and compensated nuts. It will never be in tune everywhere perfectly, all you can do is get it right for you.
 
Thanks for that. I was just confused because it seems like most people. Ever tell you to FRET the note. Even the Charvel manual says open string and 12th harmonic without mention of fretting the note which to me is where the errors are most noticeable.
 
USMC_Trev said:
That's going overboard I think. Some players need to change strings after every gig. Do it if when you notice it's out.
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Yeah, I would agree. There's nothing wrong with checking intonation every string change I wouldn't bother with setting it again unless it's way off which is should not be. If the neck relief and string height is the same, the frets have not worn significantly and I'm using the same gauge strings I don't see a need to intonate the guitar for along, long time. The string length doesn't change over time, assuming those things I mentioned are constant.
 
I do it the official way like explained above ..... but there's also the Joe Bonamassa way which I heard him say in some video - which is not to get too exact doing the open/harmonic/fret at 12 thing but play an open A chord at fret 2 position and then play it again at fret 14 position and if it sounds ok in both positions then it's 'close enough'.

I prefer the official way myself .... it's easier to use a tuner and adjust one string at a time rather than try and work with 2 chords and be fiddling with intonation screws at the same time.
 
HarrySound said:
Thanks for that. I was just confused because it seems like most people. Ever tell you to FRET the note. Even the Charvel manual says open string and 12th harmonic without mention of fretting the note which to me is where the errors are most noticeable.
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The open string and 12th harmonic HAVE to be in tune, by definition.
 
intonation aligns the frets, not the harmonics. (yes, the harmonics are above the frets, but we naturally adjust where we are touching the string to get a full note.) so yes, always compare with the fretted note so you can align that with the harmonic's position. the 1/2 point of a string is always at the center of itself no matter how you adjust the nuts, saddles and bridges ;)
 
I picked up a great method from ibanezrules.com:

Put fresh strings on, tune, stretch, repeat until "stable".

Using a standard tuner, fret the string at the 12th fret and make sure it is in tune. Be very careful not to press the string too hard or in any other way cause it to bend. Use a light touch.

Now, fret the string at the highest fret on your neck and compare the tuning.

Adjust intonation as needed and repeat.

This method works really well for me. The key is not bending the string in any way when fretting.
 
USMC_Trev said:
That's going overboard I think. Some players need to change strings after every gig. Do it if when you notice it's out.
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I have fresh strings for every gig. It may depend on the guitar, but I do check and usually have to tweak after every string change.
 
I like to intonate around frets 5-9, the 12 might end up slightly different, but chords at the "normal" area benefit. This of course requires a good tuner. The reason for 12th fret/harmonic is that's the easiest place to hear the difference, and therefore the easiest place to use before the birth of accurate tuners. Nowadays, you're free to optimise your setup any way you want. The tuning will be off elsewhere on the neck, there's no way around it with normal frets. In most guitars, the biggest trouble are on the first two frets, then the intonation is low until 12th if set in the usual way, then slightly high on the highest frets.

Optimise the spot you use most! Buzz feiten mod helps, it just moves the nut very slightly closer to 1st fret. Too high nut wrecks the first frets.
 
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Thanks again guys.
My Charvel is reasonably new (a month or two) it's the best sounding guitar I've ever played but in some ways it's the most uncomfortable due to string height ,tension , and neck shape. I swore to myself I would NOT touch anything until I really knew what I was doing, and I do to an extent but my main problem is forgetting which way to turn the screw lol
For some reason I went nuts on Tuesday (probably stress) and just started turning screws like I'd forgotten my own rules. So I completely lost my point of reference and it quickly became a complete setup job rather than adjustment.

anyway fairy story aside I think I'm finally in a good all round place in terms of playability and stability.


Can I ask another question though.

Neck relief.....
Capo the first fret, finger the 17th fret which is the fret at which the neck meets the body (its a bolt on)
The half way position would be the 7th fret (i messured it) and that's what fender have said to slide a 0.010- 0.25mm feeler gauge under. The Charvel manual says the 8th fret.
Should I at this point just throw out the damn Charvel manual (which was emailed to me by a guy at fender!)
 
That doesn't matter, just measure somewhere in the middle and adjust to your preferences. The neck relief has the biggest impact on playability so spend some time finding the sweet spot.
 
I set my Peterson tuner to equal temperament mode and tune the open string to the 12th fret at the pressure I would play on the 12th fret. Then check with ears because inaccuracies can be heard. Some are tolerable and can actually add to the mojo, such as a 3 piece tele saddle set up properly. Others not so much whereas I will use an open harmonic, at the 12th, to average or balance the scale flaw.

As to neck relief it's real personal and also has to do with your string gauge and whether you are playing slide. For my taste .010 is pretty harsh for an electric... almost acoustic like. I dial my electric guitars in at .003" with 9-42 and 9-46 strings and check up on it each string change. The more temp and humidity swings you have the more you have to check. When it's said and done I flip the Peterson back to sweetened tuning and call it good.
 
Jeries said:
Hire a professional, "hey set this up", then pick up later
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While I can appreciate paying someone else to do the work for you so you can other things, every guitar player should be able to least evaluate the basic elements of their guitar's playability (string height at the nut, string height at the bridge, neck relief and intonation) so they can determine why a guitar is or is not playing well.

Setting string height at the bridge, setting relief and adjusting intonation are things that every guitar player can easily do with the right tools of course which are inexpensive.
 
chris said:
intonation aligns the frets, not the harmonics. (yes, the harmonics are above the frets, but we naturally adjust where we are touching the string to get a full note.) so yes, always compare with the fretted note so you can align that with the harmonic's position. the 1/2 point of a string is always at the center of itself no matter how you adjust the nuts, saddles and bridges ;)
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Adjusting the intonation does not "align" the frets. It adjusts the effective length of the string in relation to the frets to compensate for the pitch discrepancies that happen when fretting a note (and thus bending the string slightly). And I'm sure you already know the amount of compensation needed varies depending on the string tension, diameter, and to a lesser degree, material.
 
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