Intimidating for a newb.

maddnotez

Member
I have been really wanting to get an AX8. It seems like the perfect piece of gear (almost perfect) but I have to admit when I browse this forum it is like reading Greek and is a bit intimidating.

The most experience I have had with digital was 15 years ago with a zoom505. How easy is it for a noob to jump right into one of these?

Also running FOH scares me, it is a shame these are not powered so what are you all doing for live use? Anything I can do to avoid having to spend another $1,000 + on good monitors?
 
You can buy an EHX Magnum 44 and use a guitar cabinet. You don't need to go direct to FOH.

Getting started is easy, start with an amp block and stay on the basic page. Lots of very good sounds to be found there.

Add the FX you know and like. Don't be afraid to use the presets within the FX blocks.
 
There are also excellent video tutorials offered by a forum member. Do a search on the Fractal forum for a member named Chris@axefxtutorials. He has several videos that are very well done, especially for folks new to Fractal products, and they are very reasonably priced. The videos are well worth the money if you want to simplify your learning curve.
 
I should add that there are other folks with great video tutorials out there. Danny Danzi has some good stuff. So does Moke. I'm sure that there are others that are not coming to mind right now.

There is a learning curve, but it is possible to get great sounds if you keep things simple. Follow Smittefar's suggestions and you can get immediate satisfaction. Add some other resources (like the videos I mentioned, especially Chris') and most people can get up and running quickly. It's important to remember that diving into the deep parameters is an option, not a requirement. Just adjusting base/middle/treble goes a long way.

As for monitors, I'm using a JBL EON 610 that I picked up new for $325.00. I have also used an Alto TS112 that I picked up used for $125.00. Neither are as good an option as an Atomic CLR, but they are both reasonably priced options that I use for gigs and enjoy just fine. You can always upgrade later if you want to.
 
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IMO, the Fractal stuff takes a commitment to get the most out of it.

If you are the type of person that is willing to learn and take some time the rewards are great. It's a brilliant piece of kit.

If you are the type of person that really doesn't want to get deep into your gear, it's not for you.

It's not rocket science, but some musicians just don't want to get deep into their gear. Some of my friends are like this. Brilliant performers but getting into gear just isn't their thing.
 
@OP IMHO, It depends on you and what you want. Their are killer players on here that like the presets. There are killer players that don't like them. There are players of all levels on this forum. So? It depends on what you want. I do agree that you do need to learn the unit as far as navigation and what the knobs do, etc. If you don't you would have trouble even just going thru the presets. But do you have to change parameters that you have no idea what they mean, no you don't. Do you have to go to all the levels available in an amp block? No you don't. Can you stay on the basic amp page as mentioned above? Yes you can. All depends on you.
Finally, like Barhrecords said above, it's not rocket science but it does take some dedication.
 
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AX8 is Professional Grade, requires the player have an understanding of how tube amps and effects work to take full advantage of everything it can do.

If you are willing to study up and spend time building your Grail Tones, AX8 will be a rewarding and satisfying experience. If you want canned presets that sound cool and you don't plan on changing/adjusting much, there are other processors that may be a better fit for you.
 
The most experience I have had with digital was 15 years ago with a zoom505. How easy is it for a noob to jump right into one of these?

Growing up I had a Digitech GNX3, ibanez prestige and an ibanez toneblaster. Now, I have all PRS axes and Fractal gear using studio monitors and direct FOH or FRFR to simulate. The moral of this fine tale is that yes, you can jump right in but make sure you prepare yourself for the same learning curve you had with the Zoom or any digital gear. Here are my quick suggestions:

  • Start simple. If you build your own presets using the AX8-Edit software (simple to use), start small with just an AMP + CAB combo that you like with a shunt straight across from I > O
  • RTFM and/or read then post on this forum. When I first started, I had some seemingly dumb questions that were answered quickly. I'll re-open my wound, I asked why just an amp in the signal chain sounded horrible. Well, it's because you need an AMP + CAB block if you are simulating a powered amp and an internal IR (impulse response) to reflect the tone you want. I'm not ashamed to have learned that within the first couple weeks of preset building
  • Listen/Watch the videos. Chris from AxeFXTutorials.com has some great how-to videos along with others on here. This is a community that values sharing, experience and relative skill to better the product (about 80%+ of us) for the greater good of us all.
This is a new animal that you have to tame yourself. If you're patient, willing to learn and are prepared to get some of the best tones possible then go for it mate.

As for the monitors, running FOH isn't as scary as one would think. Some things to search for on here are "amp in the room" "FRFR (full range flat response)" "pushing air" for the in room dynamics. For myself personally I have some studio monitors I bought on Craigslist for $300 that I build my presets on/practice with, then plug directly into a PA either at church or my own gear for gigs. Gain staging is the concept that is crucial for understanding how to properly hear how loud a preset will be. What I mean is if you build your presets for you setlist and change your amp models often, know that some of the referenced amps will sound louder or quieter depending on the model. Overall FOH direct is blissful if you or someone you know has some basic knowledge of a soundboard (running EQ flat etc.).

Hope that helps mate! Intimidating? Yes. World class digital guitar revolution? Yes. An absolute blast once you understand the conceptual design? Yes. Can you do it? Only you can decide that:
yJUSQ7.gif
 
I think it's easiest to start out just using the preamp and fx and go into a guitar amp fx return and then real cab. This is phase 1. Phase 2 ditch the guitar amp and use the power amp modeling and a flat amp like a matrix into a guitar cab, phase 3 ditch the guitar cab and get an frfr speaker. This is the easiest way to transition as far as getting used to digital sound. It's not the cheapest way in the end but initially there is less to buy assuming you already have a guitar rig.
 
You can buy an EHX Magnum 44 and use a guitar cabinet. You don't need to go direct to FOH.

Getting started is easy, start with an amp block and stay on the basic page. Lots of very good sounds to be found there.

Add the FX you know and like. Don't be afraid to use the presets within the FX blocks.

Yeah, I had considered that as well. I like that little power amp pedal.
Growing up I had a Digitech GNX3, ibanez prestige and an ibanez toneblaster. Now, I have all PRS axes and Fractal gear using studio monitors and direct FOH or FRFR to simulate. The moral of this fine tale is that yes, you can jump right in but make sure you prepare yourself for the same learning curve you had with the Zoom or any digital gear. Here are my quick suggestions:

  • Start simple. If you build your own presets using the AX8-Edit software (simple to use), start small with just an AMP + CAB combo that you like with a shunt straight across from I > O
  • RTFM and/or read then post on this forum. When I first started, I had some seemingly dumb questions that were answered quickly. I'll re-open my wound, I asked why just an amp in the signal chain sounded horrible. Well, it's because you need an AMP + CAB block if you are simulating a powered amp and an internal IR (impulse response) to reflect the tone you want. I'm not ashamed to have learned that within the first couple weeks of preset building
  • Listen/Watch the videos. Chris from AxeFXTutorials.com has some great how-to videos along with others on here. This is a community that values sharing, experience and relative skill to better the product (about 80%+ of us) for the greater good of us all.
This is a new animal that you have to tame yourself. If you're patient, willing to learn and are prepared to get some of the best tones possible then go for it mate.

As for the monitors, running FOH isn't as scary as one would think. Some things to search for on here are "amp in the room" "FRFR (full range flat response)" "pushing air" for the in room dynamics. For myself personally I have some studio monitors I bought on Craigslist for $300 that I build my presets on/practice with, then plug directly into a PA either at church or my own gear for gigs. Gain staging is the concept that is crucial for understanding how to properly hear how loud a preset will be. What I mean is if you build your presets for you setlist and change your amp models often, know that some of the referenced amps will sound louder or quieter depending on the model. Overall FOH direct is blissful if you or someone you know has some basic knowledge of a soundboard (running EQ flat etc.).

Hope that helps mate! Intimidating? Yes. World class digital guitar revolution? Yes. An absolute blast once you understand the conceptual design? Yes. Can you do it? Only you can decide that:
yJUSQ7.gif


Great reply. I am a gear freak and I frequent other forums. I actually recognize a few people here from other places. I just posted elsewhere that I need an AX8 and all other plans and GAS have gone to the wayside over the last few days.

It took me a while to acquire my rig and get it where I wanted it. I am still working on it and seems that it will never end. I am very happy with my tone but I am also an addict and a tweaker. I have heard the AXE-FX live and know there are tones I will love so I think with all of that said the AX8 will be great for me.
 
I have been really wanting to get an AX8. It seems like the perfect piece of gear (almost perfect) but I have to admit when I browse this forum it is like reading Greek and is a bit intimidating.

The most experience I have had with digital was 15 years ago with a zoom505. How easy is it for a noob to jump right into one of these?

Also running FOH scares me, it is a shame these are not powered so what are you all doing for live use? Anything I can do to avoid having to spend another $1,000 + on good monitors?

You can't expect to power up the AX8 and be an expert immediately, it's a very deep device. My advice is if your into "rock" tones, audition some of the factory presets using the amps typical of that genre (the 50 Watt Jumped Plexi and Friedman HBE are a couple good launching point) and just spend a couple minutes a day refining those presets to your personal tastes.

I'm not gigging now, but I'll give you the same advice I've given others on the topic. If you're not gigging, forget the large PA style speaker and look into a nice set of nearfield monitors. I have a fairly modest set of M-Audio monitors which sound great and are more than loud enough for home studio practice. If you need higher volume, I'd look at the Alto 10" or 12" monitors first to see if they'll work for you.
 
I think it's easiest to start out just using the preamp and fx and go into a guitar amp fx return and then real cab. This is phase 1. Phase 2 ditch the guitar amp and use the power amp modeling and a flat amp like a matrix into a guitar cab, phase 3 ditch the guitar cab and get an frfr speaker. This is the easiest way to transition as far as getting used to digital sound. It's not the cheapest way in the end but initially there is less to buy assuming you already have a guitar rig.

That would be an interesting approach in transitioning.

Or do like I did and jump straight to FRFR and never look back. I love playing along with my favorite tunes so having the fully "produced" mic'd sound is exactly what I prefer to hear anyway. I've never really understood the "amp in the room" thing. You have favorite guitar players who have a tone that you'd like to emulate. Well the tone you're hearing is their amps mic'd up and recorded. So why not create the same kind of sound? That's how I look at it anyway.
 
1) buy AX8

2) buy Beyerdynamic DT770 phones

3) selling all your other crap (except monitors)

4) just frickin play your guitar!
 
Thanks for the further replies and my advance apology for the long post but here is my summary and thoughts after creating the thread and reading replies.

The more I think about it, the reason for me to really want one of these more or less is ease of use/laziness and what is seemingly unlimited tweaking options/different amp sounds.

I have a really nice guitar rig but my cab is 116 lbs, my amp is probably close to 50 lbs and then I also have a little man purse with a few pedals and tons of cables/power supplies. It is a lot of gear to lug around for me. I play with 2 different groups and have to lug all of this around all over the place between practicing and gigging.

The thought of having to only carry a guitar and a "pedalboard" (AX8) is very very appealing, plus the sounds I am hearing from this thing online are great.

I will most likely take Tahoebrian5's approach with the 3 phases. Start with the FX into my amp, then use my amp or maybe a 44 magnum or something for power and get into the amp functions of the AX8 but at my main band practice and for gigging what I ultimately want is to just run FOH and not have to worry about anything. That thought does scare me, I think what if I get a total noob soundguy? What if I go out of town and there is no PA? etc. More worried about the no PA thing but if we did travel I would ask the venue in advance so whatever.

I am getting ready to get some money out of my account for some other things and may take out a bit extra for the AX8. I have been reading a bit more on the unit and if I do end up with one which is likely, I will certainly dive deep into the unit and these forums.

Anyway appreciate all the input and suggestions.
 
You are entering a rabbit hole. @maddnotez :D It's a good one, though.

Navigating Fractal gear, I have learned through working with an Ultra and now the AX; is a little difficult at first. I had the Ultra interface down then got the AX and had to do a little relearning. I ended up making a cheat sheet over the weekend just to keep my head straight when working on patches. The amps and effects sound completely awesome. I dialed in a Marshall tone in 5 mins that was amazing. Cleans are there in spades as are killer high gain stuff with the IIC+.

I run FRFR and bring a powered monitor with me when we play. One send out to the PA and the other to my monitor. It seems intimidating to someone who has played traditional guitar rigs their entire life but you just have to make that first leap. PA scenario is always a matter of concern whether you are running a modeling rig or traditional half stack rig.
 
Thanks for the further replies and my advance apology for the long post but here is my summary and thoughts after creating the thread and reading replies.

The more I think about it, the reason for me to really want one of these more or less is ease of use/laziness and what is seemingly unlimited tweaking options/different amp sounds.

I have a really nice guitar rig but my cab is 116 lbs, my amp is probably close to 50 lbs and then I also have a little man purse with a few pedals and tons of cables/power supplies. It is a lot of gear to lug around for me. I play with 2 different groups and have to lug all of this around all over the place between practicing and gigging.

The thought of having to only carry a guitar and a "pedalboard" (AX8) is very very appealing, plus the sounds I am hearing from this thing online are great.

I will most likely take Tahoebrian5's approach with the 3 phases. Start with the FX into my amp, then use my amp or maybe a 44 magnum or something for power and get into the amp functions of the AX8 but at my main band practice and for gigging what I ultimately want is to just run FOH and not have to worry about anything. That thought does scare me, I think what if I get a total noob soundguy? What if I go out of town and there is no PA? etc. More worried about the no PA thing but if we did travel I would ask the venue in advance so whatever.

I am getting ready to get some money out of my account for some other things and may take out a bit extra for the AX8. I have been reading a bit more on the unit and if I do end up with one which is likely, I will certainly dive deep into the unit and these forums.

Anyway appreciate all the input and suggestions.

Gigging direct can absolutely be tricky. You'll going to have to know whether there is a PA where your playing assuming you have a vocalist. I can absolutely guarantee you some places the PA will be total trash and the sound guy/gal unskilled. For those reasons, it is totally common to either bring one's own FRFR style monitor or splitting off a signal without the cab IRs into the return of a smaller amp for stage sound. Gigging is always a give and take situation. Way back when I was running actual amps the trend seemed to be sound guys who wanted very low stage volume which was problematic running higher power amps. We'd place them side firing with the volume lower where we were hearing more from the foldback than the actual amps. Got to the point where having an amp on stage really served no benefit anyway, but the FOH sound was actually way better that way. We guitarists typically place a much higher importance on our sound (volume) than is really required/preferred by most audiences...
 
Unless you use ear monitors, none of that matters. Our setup albeit not cheap, the sound guy can be a total dolt and we'll still be able to perform and sound good "to us".
 
Yeah - I run in-ears, and it is great, but I play almost exclusively with one band, and we have our own PA. But I do have a small (12" 600W) and light powered monitor that I can grab, If I am going to sit in with some other guys.
 
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