Input/Output issues....

[jlynnb1]

First, my input levels never change, with any guitar. (reading the input meters in the axe) I can never get it to "tickle the red". even when i turn the input level almost all the way down nothing really changes.

secondly, my output level seems ridiculously high. i have to run my output on the front panel at like 8-9 oclock (essentially 2-3) or it clips our board at church and my interface here at my house.

what am I doing wrong?? i'm following the instructions as laid out in the manual....

 

[Rex]

First, my input levels never change, with any guitar. (reading the input meters in the axe) I can never get it to "tickle the red". even when i turn the input level almost all the way down nothing really changes.

You'll only see the input meters change at extreme settings of the input trim control. From the manual:

All inputs are normalized, allowing the Axe-Fx II to operate with unity gain irrespective of the trim settings. The sole purpose of the input trims is to optimize A/D drive level for the best signal-to-noise ratio and distortion performance.

secondly, my output level seems ridiculously high. i have to run my output on the front panel at like 8-9 oclock (essentially 2-3) or it clips our board at church and my interface here at my house.

It sounds like your board and interface are set up for mic-level signals. Depending on the hardware you're using, look for a mic/line switch, a pad switch, or a trim control.

 

[Shredology]

First, my input levels never change, with any guitar. (reading the input meters in the axe) I can never get it to "tickle the red". even when i turn the input level almost all the way down nothing really changes.

secondly, my output level seems ridiculously high. i have to run my output on the front panel at like 8-9 oclock (essentially 2-3) or it clips our board at church and my interface here at my house.

what am I doing wrong?? i'm following the instructions as laid out in the manual....

I have this exact situation. I thought is was normal.

 

[yek]

You'll only see the input meters change at extreme settings of the input trim control.

It sounds like your board and interface are set up for mic-level signals. Depending on the hardware you're using, look for a mic/line switch, a pad switch, or a trim control.

Verify that Input 1 Mode is set to Left.

Adding to Rex's comments: if the mixer hasn't got a pad / trim / line input, it's perfectly okay to keep the output level down as you do now. Doesn't hurt the tone.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Just to make it clear - and to quote Cliff in one of the similar threads before:

Output 2 all the way to the end is unity gain.
Output 1 all the way to the end is NOT unity gain, as Output 1 is line level.

 

[javajunkie]

Just to make it clear - and to quote Cliff in one of the similar threads before:

Output 2 all the way to the end is unity gain.
Output 1 all the way to the end is NOT unity gain, as Output 1 is line level.

I don't recall him ever saying that.
Both are line level outs and can achievei equal amounts of level of up to +20dbu.

Here is what I know he has said,
"Let me clarify, you shouldn't NEED to turn the output level all the way up and, in general, if you do, then your gain staging is probably suboptimal.

Unity gain mode is a special mode designed for use with the 4CM. When you turn the output levels all the way up whatever you put in you get out (assuming all unity-gain blocks in the chain). If you have an amp block in the chain then you have tons of gain and therefore no longer have unity gain.

Optimal gain staging would be with the level knob around noon. Higher than this and you risk clipping the inputs of the downstream device. With the level knob at full the Axe-Fx II will probably incinerate a Soundblaster or other low-cost stuff. The max level out of the Axe-Fx II is +20 dBu. Most pro gear can easily handle that but lots of gear cannot and the trend in newer gear is towards lower and lower maximum input levels (due to single-ended designs and low-voltage/low-power constraints). In the old days, +20 dBu was routine. Everything could put out and handle +20. Not so much anymore.

For a Strat, near 100% on the input level is not unusual. I run my Strat around there. It has vintage-type pickups."

Also

Everyone listen and listen closely:

"UNITY GAIN IS ONLY FOR WHEN RUNNING FOUR-CABLE METHOD. OTHERWISE, USE THE LEVEL CONTROLS TO CONTROL THE LEVELS. YOU SHOULD NEVER TURN THE LEVEL KNOBS ALL THE WAY UP UNDER NORMAL USE."

And this seems to indicate otherwise:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-output-level-2-compare-ultra.html#post558751
"The II is unity gain. If you run "dry tracks", which I'm assuming you mean a patch with just shunts, then you'll get the same level out as you put in (assuming Output set to maximum). See the manual for full details.

Reading the manual is essential for getting the most out of the unit."

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I don't recall him ever saying that.
Both are line level outs and can achievei equal amounts of level of up to +20dbu.

Here is what I know he has said,
"Let me clarify, you shouldn't NEED to turn the output level all the way up and, in general, if you do, then your gain staging is probably suboptimal.

Unity gain mode is a special mode designed for use with the 4CM. When you turn the output levels all the way up whatever you put in you get out (assuming all unity-gain blocks in the chain). If you have an amp block in the chain then you have tons of gain and therefore no longer have unity gain.

Optimal gain staging would be with the level knob around noon. Higher than this and you risk clipping the inputs of the downstream device. With the level knob at full the Axe-Fx II will probably incinerate a Soundblaster or other low-cost stuff. The max level out of the Axe-Fx II is +20 dBu. Most pro gear can easily handle that but lots of gear cannot and the trend in newer gear is towards lower and lower maximum input levels (due to single-ended designs and low-voltage/low-power constraints). In the old days, +20 dBu was routine. Everything could put out and handle +20. Not so much anymore.

For a Strat, near 100% on the input level is not unusual. I run my Strat around there. It has vintage-type pickups."

Also

Everyone listen and listen closely:

"UNITY GAIN IS ONLY FOR WHEN RUNNING FOUR-CABLE METHOD. OTHERWISE, USE THE LEVEL CONTROLS TO CONTROL THE LEVELS. YOU SHOULD NEVER TURN THE LEVEL KNOBS ALL THE WAY UP UNDER NORMAL USE."

And this seems to indicate otherwise:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-output-level-2-compare-ultra.html#post558751
"The II is unity gain. If you run "dry tracks", which I'm assuming you mean a patch with just shunts, then you'll get the same level out as you put in (assuming Output set to maximum). See the manual for full details.

Reading the manual is essential for getting the most out of the unit."

Well, sorry for having added to the confusion. I wasn't really meaning unity gain in this particular situation (I just thought it would help the OP understand). What I meant was: If you level your presets with the utility->status display to make output 2 and output 1 roughly the same peak value, you need to set out 2 all the way to the maximum to get the same loudness as when you set out 1 to like 9/10 o'clock.

 

[Trazan]

If you level your presets with the utility->status display to make output 2 and output 1 roughly the same peak value, you need to set out 2 all the way to the maximum to get the same loudness as when you set out 1 to like 9/10 o'clock.

Huh? Both Out 1 and 2 will be unity gain from input to output with the output controls at full. Out 1 and 2 do not add gain, they only attenuate.

Obviously, if the signal is modified within the Axe digitally you may have something completely different at the output than input. E.g. adding amp sim in there will add boatloads of gain. A straight wire from input to output within the Axe will give the same at both outputs with both controls at FULL.

If gain is applied within the Axe, set the outputs where appropriate, depending on what it's connected to.

 

[javajunkie]

Huh? Both Out 1 and 2 will be unity gain from input to output with the output controls at full. Out 1 and 2 do not add gain, they only attenuate.

Obviously, if the signal is modified within the Axe digitally you may have something completely different at the output than input. E.g. adding amp sim in there will add boatloads of gain. A straight wire from input to output within the Axe will give the same at both outputs with both controls at FULL.

If gain is applied within the Axe, set the outputs where appropriate, depending on what it's connected to.

I think the Axe-fx outputs can add up +20dbu of gain.

 

[yek]

Well, sorry for having added to the confusion. I wasn't really meaning unity gain in this particular situation (I just thought it would help the OP understand). What I meant was: If you level your presets with the utility->status display to make output 2 and output 1 roughly the same peak value, you need to set out 2 all the way to the maximum to get the same loudness as when you set out 1 to like 9/10 o'clock.

Switch to an empty preset. Insert an Amp block. Make sure the Output Mixer is at default. Set Copy Out1 to Out2. Turn both Output level knobs to max. Hit the strings. Levels (Status) are exactly the same.

Same with Copy Out1 > Out2 off, and an FXL block in the chain.

 

[Trazan]

I think the Axe-fx outputs can add up +20dbu of gain.

No, the output knob doesn't add anything. I'm guessing you mix it up with the fact that 0 dBFS = +20 dBU with the output knob at full. That's just a calibration thing, the voltage the Axe will provide at the point of digital maximum.

 

[javajunkie]

No, the output knob doesn't add anything. I'm guessing you mix it up with the fact that 0 dBFS = +20 dBU with the output knob at full. That's just a calibration thing.

Yes that what I did, thanks.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Switch to an empty preset. Insert an Amp block. Make sure the Output Mixer is at default. Set Copy Out1 to Out2. Turn both Output level knobs to max. Hit the strings. Levels (Status) are exactly the same.

Same with Copy Out1 > Out2 off, and an FXL block in the chain.

Yes, the levels in the status menu are the same, but not the actual signal level! The out 2 output level will be a lot lower than out 1 output level (at least when using an FXL block, dunno if its the same with copy out1 to out2 setting).

 

[Rex]

The out 2 output level will be a lot lower than out 1 output level (at least when using an FXL block, dunno if its the same with copy out1 to out2 setting).

Unless the FX loop and the main output are receiving the same signal, it's not unusual for them to have different levels. Different signals, different levels.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Unless the FX loop and the main output are receiving the same signal, it's not unusual for them to have different levels. Different signals, different levels.

Yes, assuming they are both receiving the same signal. It seems like Out 1 is a lot hotter on the same utility->status level as Out 2 with the same signal going in.

 

[Rex]

Yes, assuming they are both receiving the same signal. It seems like Out 1 is a lot hotter on the same utility->status level as Out 2 with the same signal going in.

I'm not getting that. I've got Copy Out 1 to Out 2 turned off, and I'm tapping the output from the last effect into the loop. As long as I've got both Out1 and Out2 knobs in the same position, I get pretty much the same volume out of either output.