Input Meter: "Tickle" the red... But output? Do I... Do I tickle that too?

Ugly Bunny

Ugly Bunny

Power User
From the manual and wiki we're supposed to set the input so that the red flashes every now and again. I'm curious what this means to other people. For me, it means generally just on my hardest playing and only transients; like If Im playing quarter notes really hard on my HB bridge pup, I expect to see the red every note. Is this wrong? Should I back it off? I can't really tell much tonal difference between, say, 50% and 55% or even up to 100% except the red is lit more.

Anyway, regarding output: since the LEDs only show how much signal is actually being output through the hardware, where should the signal be on the meter (if you are on layout and zoom out: that/those output meters)? I noticed mine were dimed (saturated full green/full red) so I went in and backed off the amp volume until I hovering mostly in the green but some red.

Should I avoid all red and keep it green? Or is a little red okay like in the input LEDs?

I can't tell you how thankful I am for all these meters. I love my Line 6 helix but any gear like this NEEDS these meters. I love how Cliff has implemented them for every situation you can think of!
 
From pg 5 of the manual, the red input LED's light up at -6dBu, which means you still have 6dBu of headroom before clipping, making tickling the red totally fine, and actually desired. I can't remember exactly where I read this (I think it was in another pinned thread about levels), but I believe that the red output LEDs light up at -1dBu, so you only have 1dBu of headroom before clipping, which means you need to be a little more careful. Pg 49 of the manual goes into some detail about leveling presets, stating that you should try and make your loudest scenes and presets hover around the red line on the meters (which is an internal level of 0db, where the meters go from -20db to +10db). Hope that helps.
 
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Found the reference I was looking for, pg 15 of the manual describing the Meter Bridge:

Meter Bridge — Eight LED meters show the level of every input and output. For input meters, the red LED indicates -6dB. Set your Input Trims so your loudest playing “tickles the red” (see p. 5). For output meters, the red LED indicates -1 dBFS and is therefore a more immediate indication of clipping. You can also find on-screen meters on the Meters pages of the Home menu and the Layout.​
 
Red on output = Bad Clipping - Leave yourself a healthy amount of headroom on output (clean in particular can really jump based on how hard you strum). The Axe can provide a good healthy signal on output without getting near the red.
 
You may not notice it but the higher you have the input level the more gain all your amps will have until it turns into mush and clean channel will get really loud and possibly distorted. For output meters it depends on how your running the Axe III. Are you going through a powered monitor, if so what are you using for your volume control, the output knob on the Axe or the input knob on the monitor? If you're using the monitor's input knob, then set your Axe's output level as the manual says and you'll get the most headroom out of the Axe. I'm currently running a pair of powered monitors and keep their input level all the way up or zero attenuation, so my Axe's output knob is also my overall volume knob. It will never hit the red because it would then be ripping loud and blow my head off :eek:. See what I mean? Same goes if you're using a power amp, it depends on which piece of equipment you're using as a volume knob, the Axe, or the amp.
 
sprint said:
Red on output = Bad Clipping - Leave yourself a healthy amount of headroom on output (clean in particular can really jump based on how hard you strum). The Axe can provide a good healthy signal on output without getting near the red.
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That also depends on what kind of amp you are going into. Some tube amps can take boatloads of input, they may be clipping but you also may like that clipping, but if you're hearing digital clipping (nasty) you'll want to turn the output level down.
 
gigawatt said:
You may not notice it but the higher you have the input level the more gain all your amps will have until it turns into mush and clean channel will get really loud and possibly distorted. /QUOTE]
The input level is for the AD converters and does not affect tone or volume/gain of the audio signal...

Unless you are talking about Input Drive on the Amp block?
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gigawatt said:
That also depends on what kind of amp you are going into. Some tube amps can take boatloads of input, they may be clipping but you also may like that clipping, but if you're hearing digital clipping (nasty) you'll want to turn the output level down.
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Wrong... This is digital clipping of the output. It has nothing to do with what amp you are feeding into.

You won't like digital clipping... It is very different from analog clipping.
 
@unix-guy I can't quote your quote but the answer to your question is input drive.

I know what you're saying about the input level A/D converters, but I still prefer a knob (pot) control like the older Axe Fx units. As the great Doctor (Tom Baker) would say, never trust gimmicky gadgets. If you're not familiar with Tom Baker and Doctor Who from 1978, nevermind. ;)
 
gigawatt said:
Isn't that what I just said? To quote myself from above:
.
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But you also talked about power amps being ok taking in that high output.

My point was that if the Axe Fx (or whatever) is digitally clipping, the power amps input capacity is irrelevant... It's going to sound like poo!
 
unix-guy said:
But you also talked about power amps being ok taking in that high output.
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Wrong.,, The power amps I was talking about are tube amps which can take in high input.

unix-guy said:
My point was that if the Axe Fx (or whatever) is digitally clipping, the power amps input capacity is irrelevant... It's going to sound like poo!
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Are you reading another thread? I'll quote what I said again:
gigawatt said:
but if you're hearing digital clipping (nasty) you'll want to turn the output level down.
Click to expand...
 
gigawatt said:
Wrong.,, The power amps I was talking about are tube amps which can take in high input.:
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If the Axe Fx is clipping the output, it doesn't matter one iota what the power amp is... It's already clipping before it gets to the power amp.
 
gigawatt said:
That also depends on what kind of amp you are going into. Some tube amps can take boatloads of input, they may be clipping but you also may like that clipping, but if you're hearing digital clipping (nasty) you'll want to turn the output level down.
Click to expand...

Obviously, "output level down" is refering to the Axe Fx's output level.

unix-guy said:
If the Axe Fx is clipping the output, it doesn't matter one iota what the power amp is... It's already clipping before it gets to the power amp.
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"but if you're hearing digital clipping (nasty)." Referring to the Axe Fx's output clipping.

I don't know how to be any clearer other than physically showing you. We are both saying the same thing, sorry I don't have Leonardo Da Vinci here to explain it better. I'm going to make this my first post without an emoji, that way you'll have no idea what I'm talking about ;-)
 
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