Inexpensive active FRFRs: Headrush1212, Laney LFR112, QSC CP8, ISP FS8...

Have any of you compared the Laney LFR to the CLR mk II?
Kind of. That's not really a fair comparison, but the Laney holds up pretty well. It's a bit more bass heavy and has a slight dip in the mids. It may "feel" more like a guitar cab for some.
I just sold my Laney because I could get the CLR for a good price, otherwise I would have kept it.
 
I haven't made 10 posts to any Fractal Forum so I can't drop a link on you guys... but this will be simple enough if you know how to drive the typical browser on the typical computer...

I found myself looking for something in the FRFR least expensive category. I am not born with unlimited funds and must try to obtain products that are useful and as reliable as possible. I wished for something like the Atomic CLR neo, Mission Engineering Gemini series (especially the powered twin-driver model is very nice). I even tried using studio monitors like the Yamaha HS8 series and some concentrically configured types like Tannoy. While they do allow me to hear my presets in great detail, studio monitors are not road worthy by any means and not always flat response nor do they ever need to be. "Flat-Response" is useful to level the playing field so that becomes less of a concern than other variables... but I have found that no PA system is actually flat, nor should it be. The best simulation you can do actually involves building a small PA system and using your speaker cabinets, power amp, FRFR monitors, in-ear monitors and whatever else you might use in a real world situation... and equalize and build your presets so that the audience hears your sounds the way they started in your head. Then you as a player can develop your own private sound bubble so that you experience the sound of the guitar in a way that supports the level of creativity and perfection that you need.

I realized that with amplifier modelling systems (regardless of the effects used)... there is a separation between what the audience hears... and what the player experiences. It struck me that how obvious this is, and that we can take advantage of that fact.

This may be an oversimplification, but with a conventional amplifier you are stuck with an amplifier/speaker box in the room... both the player and the audience get the same shower of sound from the same place, and it is not optimized for either one of them. But with a modeler, it is possible to optimize both of these systems entirely separately from one another. You can develop the best sound inside the modeler as you do when recording, then present it so that the audience gets to hear that sound in the best possible format and in stereo. Now, the player also gets his own sound bubble and can tweak it so that he hears everything he needs better without affecting what the audience hears in any way.

The point is... that you are dealing with two entirely different sound reproduction systems that can be optimized individually and separately. How's that for modern science?

Forgive me... I departed from what I started to say. I wanted to suggest a really good alternative for a starter FRFR system. I have played several speaker types, both concentric types like the CLR and non-concentric like the Friedman ALM. If you are being uber critical this makes a difference. But only to the player. This does not affect the audience listening to your performance. If you are putting a significant part of your signal thru the FOH system, you must blame the sound engineer for any deficiencies for your audience. If you leveled your presets so they sound good together, and gain-staged each component so that you do not introduce distortion in the effects chain then it should sound as good as it did when you listened to the result on your studio monitors or headphones at home. No excuses.

I found that I can compromise the locality of concentric speakers if the tweeter is conical and smooth. This is important and cannot be overstated. On speakers that contain a compression horn in some kind of trapezoidal throat, I have found that the reflections in the horn throat destroy the sound unless you stand directly in the path of the beam shooting straight out of the horn. This pretty much eliminates any conventional PA speaker for use as a personal monitor. Since no PA system has a totally flat response, it can be derived that no monitoring system has to be perfectly flat either. The sound should enhance the sound of the guitar, but give a more or less faithful representation of the sound that is presented to your audience (sourced from the same device) but EQ'd for the specific task. Some of the presets that I build, or purchased, or were supplied will sound dull on even the best speakers without some additional tone shaping. I have found that with the presets in the AX8 specifically, a light boost at about 12K and above of about 8 to 10db (sounds extreme! but it's not) really helps. The bass at 80Hz should be rolled off unless you want that thump to be present in your personal bubble, although I only drop it by a couple of db. I pretty much leave the midrange frequencies alone. This is not a flat monitor by any means, but it sounds really good and the FOH guy may touch up your tone for the main PA a little as well. Tell him to leave the effects alone and don't suggest any other treatments. He should view the sound from your gear like he would handle a keyboard or any other "complete" system.

Lightweight, Durable, SMALL, powerful (250 watts) and sound good too.
It should have a built in Class-D amplifier, crossover, 2 way speaker system with at least a 12" speaker for thump.
The tweeter should be concentric or very close to the speaker in such a way that localization is not an issue.
All this and hope to pay only about $200 in the United States.

I found one of these speakers locally, USED for (the trade in value of some old rack compressors) and about $21 in change. I thought that I would try it out with my AX8 and see if it could be useful as an FRFR personal monitor speaker. What is the worst that could happen?... I could wind up with another good cheap vocal monitor that I can feed from a spare AUX on the band's mixer. But the darn thing worked so well that I am still in disbelief !!!!

First I built a small PA system using an Allen & Heath ZED 10Fx mixer running into a pair of JBL PRX812w (1500w each) speakers chosen for the main PA. I plugged the AX8 into a stereo pair of channels and applied a little EQ to get it to sound like what I want to hear in my headphones. Remember, that no true PA system is ever a flat response system, for YOU... it just isn't. Your part in the whole production just isn't that important to the typical crowd or the typical engineer. The crowd just wants to be entertained. The engineer wants everyone to be happy, enjoy the event and get paid. You just can't please everybody. Sorry, but that is a fact of life.

I then used the same parallel OUT1 feed on the back of the AX8 to go into the front panel of a small 23 lbs clam-shell 2-way stage monitor.

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This is the Behringer F1220D 250-watt Class-D amplified 2-way floor monitor. It is really really small and it sounds huge!
I love the fact that there are real knobs and that I don't have to dive through a series of menus to change a setting in real time.

I don't know why more people haven't discovered this. Sweetwater Music in Fort Wayne, IN is selling these for $199.99. You can't find anything comparable for that price anywhere. The case is covered in that black rat-fur felt that looks great, but doesn't tear up your hands like the truck-bed coatings that they put on some other speakers. Every corner has a large rubber bumper, and the tweeter sounds great and is positioned just outside the rim of the 12" speaker. It gets stupid loud. The on board EQ was the reason that I considered this particular speaker for the job of personal monitor. You can tweak it just as I suggested, adding a little more top end above 12K and this thing sounds amazing for guitar. Remember that the typical electric guitar has very little sound information above 6 to 8KHz. All you are doing is changing the slope a little bit.

I was at the point of abandoning all hopes of getting a great FRFR speaker, but these are readily available and work great. I was even committed to using the AX8 in 4CM as an effects-only system for my Mesa Mark-V 35 amplifier and vertical 2x12 Mesa cabinet. It worked this way while I was trying to find a FRFR speaker that I could afford/use. Nothing worked until this came along. I couldn't get two of the same top tier $900 coaxial speakers like everyone else prefers... I needed a solution that was practical, replaceable and even ultimately disposable should it die in service somewhere. I would rather focus on my playing than deal with hardware issues.

Again, I set up a small PA system as a basic laboratory experiment to test this gear and my presets. I used my Beyerdynamic DT770-Pro headphones, and my HS8 studio monitors to listen to the AX8 presets for consistency with other patches and spent hours gain-staging effects chains and leveling all of the presets for consistency. I got the preset sounding amazing in the PA speakers at around 92db in the room. Then I set the PA system to a lower sound pressure (simulating the sound-field at the stage position) and attached the Behringer F1220D speaker to the left output of the AX8. A few tweaks on the 3-band EQ on the face of the F1220D speaker... and it was all happy dance after that. I called Sweetwater and ordered another one just to have the ability to try this out in stereo. I am thinking that these won't wind up as spare vocal monitors after all.

It isn't rocket science, but there is some science involved. I use the small PA rig to validate all of my presets.*
I hope that you have similar wonderful experiences with your own gear acquisitions. ;)

* I am also a non-typical FOH engineer and have been one for many, many years... I have a lot of PA gear in my closet. This is not unusual.
 
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Thanks for the info! I like behringer. I use a behringer ada8200 to record drums and it sounds fantastic. I also use a behringer b2 pro for acoustics and vocals and it's great. The put some really high quality components in these mics. I also use a 2469 Ultra Curve Pro to correct my monitors, and it really helps things translate. I think people just get put off by the name.
 
I bought the Laney LFR today and should have it on Friday. I will be interested to see show it stacks up. I have two of the good LEM Titanium T4MA coaxial monitors here (not made now), I might stick the new Celestion F12 X200 into one of them if it fits to see how it fairs...........
 
I bought the Laney LFR today and should have it on Friday. I will be interested to see show it stacks up. I have two of the good LEM Titanium T4MA coaxial monitors here (not made now), I might stick the new Celestion F12 X200 into one of them if it fits to see how it fairs...........
How do you like the Laney? I would be using it for Live monitoring/backline, but are doubting whether I should get this (nice price!) or a CLR Neo MK2 (I don't need it for studio use, but for live/rehearsel) or a Friedman ASM 10... doubts, doubts
 
As on a "cab" side of things, you could try the F12-X200 Celestion speaker https://www.thomann.de/de/celestion_f12_x200.htm?glp=1, it's still not out there yet though. Put it into some empty 1x12 cab (whatever you find used) and add a power amp to it. You could also consider DIY for both cab and power amp if you are into it and the price tag is important.

Finally I've got one of these. I've installed it in an 1x12 open back housing and tried it today.

It seems it's a keeper! I don't need one, but it's so much fun.

No other FRFR monitor that I've tried sounded as much as a guitar cab like this one. It's not as crystal clear as the usual systems and it adds some low mid fullness (the room because of the open back?), but still all my presets are usable and need no retweak or eqing.
It also adds some low punch, which is very cab like, impressive!

So I tried if I come close to that with other monitors. Reducing highs and adding some 300Hz was not much of a problem, but I couldn't get that low punch at all and not all of that roomy feeling.
Awesome!
I've still not had it in the rehearse, so I don't know yet how good it cuts through...we'll see.

Parts of my monitor history among others:
RCF NX 12 sma (sold on)
Atomic CLR (sold on)
2 Matrix Q12a (rehearse setup - always need 2 of them)
RCF Art 4x12 (tweaking sounds at home).
Shure Se 535 Inears (on stage)
 
I just picked up the CP12. Only one for now, but I thought it sounded great! I listened to all of them and I honestly like it more than the K10s and 12s. Thats my ear though. It sounded great with my tracks and my axe 2 sounds as it should through them. I didnt have to change anything in my daw or in the axe to replicate my mackie mr5s. The cp12 just made it even better honestly. I even get the "amp in the room" feel from it. Very happy with the purchase. As for the cp8, i personally wasnt impressed. Way to scooped and the highs are nasaly. The cp12 had a much cleaner sub bass. Better than the mackie thump 15As.

I am an audiophile for sure and usually dont go to the top line stuff because they never seem to live up to the hype imo. I'd pick sony over bose for headphones. The cp12s are more than the mackies obviously and the mackies do sound great. But the extra 150 for a smaller speaker and better quality is well worth it.
 
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