In the MIX?

Axe5288

Inspired
I know there are probably a go-gillon variables, but I wanted to know if there were any "Go to" adjustments that can be made to an Axe 2 preset that sounds great by its self, but loses or falls short in the mix? Its not the voulme, maybe compression, IDK. any help I appreciate. BTW luvin the 5.0
 
EQ and IR selections are key here IMO. Get rid of that low low end (lowcut at anywhere from 80hz to 200hz), and add punch around 3-3.5k. Also, some air (high frequencies) are needed to open it up, otherwise it will sound flat and dull. If a couple of dBs won't do it, then try another IR. The IRs that require the least amount of EQ are the Ownhammers. Pretty much all others need some hefty EQ to get it right in a mix (even if they might sound good be themself un-EQed.)

If you ever hear a mixed-ready guitar tone by itself, you will be surprised by how thin it is compared to what guitar players are used to when dailing in tones on their own. We have a tendency to dail in our tones way too fat, way too dull and way too dry as well (most delay/reverb disappears in a mix).

Everything is VERY IMHO, so I don't have to put my flame-suit on ; )
 
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I'm far from an expert, but I've always had issues dialing in a tone that sounds great on its own and have it work well in the mix. If you really want to hear some lousy tones on their own that just fit great in the mix do some youtube searches for guitar only tracks from some artists you are trying to emulate in recording style. First thing that always stands out to me is just how much midrange there is. Its amazing how much of the sound that I tend to associate with guitar in a track doesn't ever come from the guitar at all. :)

Like I said I'm not an expert, but from what I understand it all comes down to having each instrument in its own sonic spectrum and frequency range and like Niklas said, we tend to try to bleed all over the place where we don't belong.

I haven't read this article yet, but I've seen this picture (down on the bottom right side of the page) and I think that it was said that it was very inforrmative. Filtering Instruments from Songs
 
If you ever hear a mixed-ready guitar tone by itself, you will be surprised by how thin it is compared to what guitar players are used to when dailing in tones on their own. We have tendency to dail in our tones way too fat, way too dull and way too dry as well (most delay/reverb disappears in a mix).

Everything is VERY IMHO, so I don't have to put my flame-suit on ; )

Your dead on with that statement imo, nailed it.
 
Not got my axe 2 yet but with my ultra I could never get a 4x12 to work in a band mix, I always ended up with 2x12

YMMV
 
for a VERY quick dirty mix fix, i cut lows and boost any mids on the graphic eq and it gets me kinda close quickly. you can always refine it better/more, but generally that helps me when i have 2 seconds to adjust things.
 
Niklas made some very good suggestions.

to me, it's also a change in perspective, you essentially switch hats from guitarist to engineer/producer. instead of focussing on the track, you try to see the whole - something some guitarist actually never achieve, even or especially if it's their own music.

Waves' CLA Guitar plugin is a wonderful tool to explore how a world class mixer approaches guitar tracks. the very intuitive layout gives you good results very quickly, and when you bypass the plugin it's often quite a shock.

with a learning effect.

CLA-Guitars-plp.jpg


and it's only $50 bucks.

also check out Eddie Kramer's and JJP's (Alan Rickman?) plugins.

CLA Guitars Plugin | Waves
 
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Waves' CLA Guitar plugin is a wonderful tool to explore how a world class mixer approaches guitar tracks. the very intuitive layout gives you good results very quickly, and when you bypass the plugin it's often quite a shock.

with a learning effect.

CLA-Guitars-plp.jpg


and it's only $50 bucks.

also check out Eddie Kramer's and JJP's (Alan Rickman?) plugins.

CLA Guitars Plugin | Waves

Don, is that an ampsim plugin or a preset sound sculpting tool like toontracks ezmix?
 
Is this an advertisement, or what.

Thank you, and it looks cool and all. But, do you think they will take a liking to a Fratal Audio plug on their site?? Let us not act Naive here???
 
Is this an advertisement, or what.

Thank you, and it looks cool and all. But, do you think they will take a liking to a Fratal Audio plug on their site?? Let us not act Naive here???

right :roll

it's a mixing tool.
You record your bass, guitars etc with the Axe and then use this plugin to make then fit in the mix.
You learn from what the plugin does and can apply that to your patches in the future.
 
Play along to something to get the final adjustments.

My in the mix tone is always about 10% brighter overall than my practice tone.
 
I have a huge problem of sitting in the mix. I'm not sure if I should practice like I perform here or what (I'll explain).

Band practice usually consists of same patches, but played thru a mixer into giant PA speakers. Same speakers for the singer & we are constantly battling with volume ("I can't hear singer" or "I can't hear guitar").

I have 2 4x12s, my nice one at home (Marshall 1960a, 80s hair metal red) & a cheapy 4x12 that I wouldn't miss if it disappeared.

We also never spend time tweaking sounds. Also, to make matters worse, the singer uses a lot of delays/pitch shifting/reverb effects on his voice (intentional & NOT going away). We tend to hit the same freqs, especially with all his modulation.

I've not yet mastered the art of convincing the sound guy I'm able to go direct & the last place we played had a very subpar mixer/pa, so at the last second, I drug out my cheapy 4x12/poweramp & promptly was too loud so the singer couldn't hear himself. I also forgot to turn off the cab sims! OOPS! I was extra muddy. Crowd loved us though.

This is something I'd hope to pick up at the DFW Axe Get Together this weekend. How to sit in the mix better. I'm ear-tarded.
 
it's no different than pre-axe, you have to filter out the competing frequencies, work with the other instruments in the band to carve out your space in the specturm, and then attack that space!!!

I normally put a frown face curve on my output for the with the band playing, and it does a good job for me fitting in. I haven't had any issues yet. And that's just a pretty basic move, i'm sure i could refine it better, but that's what i'd always do with my amp in the old days, drop the bass, up the mids, slightly drop the treble.
 
it's no different than pre-axe, you have to filter out the competing frequencies, work with the other instruments in the band to carve out your space in the specturm, and then attack that space!!!

I normally put a frown face curve on my output for the with the band playing, and it does a good job for me fitting in. I haven't had any issues yet. And that's just a pretty basic move, i'm sure i could refine it better, but that's what i'd always do with my amp in the old days, drop the bass, up the mids, slightly drop the treble.

I've never been in a band before without an AFX. So, I don't know all the tricks, the tips, and the tweaks.
 
LAYGO- something you guys might look into is hiring a pro sound guy to come in a work with you guys for a short time to help you dial in things (or at least teach you some tricks, etc.). Even if it's just a few hours over a weekend- rent a practice space with a PA if you don't own a descent one and get them to run through your set with you.

Bands at a certain level (even smaller regional bands here in Austin) often will hire a regular sound man (or woman) and the results are usually a huge improvement to their shows. For most though, you want to have at least one person in the band who knows a bit about how to dial things in and everyone be willing to work together- or get in good with every sound man at every venue you play so that they are willing to work a little extra for you to get things sounding good. Many of the venues here in Austin tend to have some descent sound men, at least on teh weekends, so the band can just show and setup and go.

A band having a good mix is critical for me to enjoy a show- I think it's a sign of professionalism and respect for a band to take the time to get a consistent sound.
 
LAYGO- something you guys might look into is hiring a pro sound guy to come in a work with you guys for a short time to help you dial in things (or at least teach you some tricks, etc.). Even if it's just a few hours over a weekend- rent a practice space with a PA if you don't own a descent one and get them to run through your set with you.

Bands at a certain level (even smaller regional bands here in Austin) often will hire a regular sound man (or woman) and the results are usually a huge improvement to their shows. For most though, you want to have at least one person in the band who knows a bit about how to dial things in and everyone be willing to work together- or get in good with every sound man at every venue you play so that they are willing to work a little extra for you to get things sounding good. Many of the venues here in Austin tend to have some descent sound men, at least on teh weekends, so the band can just show and setup and go.

A band having a good mix is critical for me to enjoy a show- I think it's a sign of professionalism and respect for a band to take the time to get a consistent sound.

Hiring someone for a few hours is something I'm already trying to work on. There's a guy that runs sound for the Kessler Theater here in Dallas that my drummer works with that's apparently pretty good. I've asked him to hit him for feelers on his price to work with us. I do need more guitar specific tips too & whole band. I think because of the project & the vocals effects, we present a unique challenge. Plus, our last 2 bassists are huge Claypool fans that think the bass needs to dominate.
 
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Waves' CLA Guitar plugin is a wonderful tool to explore how a world class mixer approaches guitar tracks. the very intuitive layout gives you good results very quickly, and when you bypass the plugin it's often quite a shock.
CLA-Guitars-plp.jpg
The opposite is true for me, I engage the plugin and it's often a shock -- a very bad one. I have all those, and they mangle the tone in many of the wrong ways, because unlike the axe-fx, there's no real horsepower or hardware dedicated to the job, and like the axe-fx, it's attempting to model the output of multiple analog devices, except it's "mystery meat": what are the real boxes it's attempting to emulate output of? and how many boxes is the plugin is attempting emulate at once? You get a mangled "L6 pod" version of what a master mixer does with multiple high end outboard units.

In short, IMHO it butchers the tone. Though useful for getting a bit of a clue for production, it's far better to just to use ears to fit something in the mix yourself and preserve the base tone vs using one of these mangler plugins...OMG they're scary. Just my opinion, YMMV, etc...
 
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