Ugly Bunny
Power User
EDIT 3/26 - The VC is still great! My worries that fixing the tuner would break the VC were unfounded. It still sounds wonky with cleans, with no way to adjust the doubling/chorus/tremolo-like effect out of the sound, but for anything slightly overdriven to high gain, it’s wonderful. Still very low latency even up to 5 half steps down (maybe more, I didn’t test further).
EDIT 2/10: The VC in 5.00 official release rocks just as it did from the first beta.
EDIT: Despite my (and others') conjecture here and elsewhere, it has been confirmed by Cliff over at TGP that the pitch block was, in fact, intentionally improved in this update, despite there not being any mention of it anywhere and zero response in any VC-related thread. I had a chance to tag him in a post and his response was affirmative. Thank you, Cliff!!
OP:
After some deliberation about whether or not to update to 5.0b with a gig coming up this week, I decided to back up my presets and go for it. Other than the one bug I found in the virtual capo described here (which I'm now understanding is a known issue), I was pleasantly surprised to find that it works better and faster than in 4.1. I spent some time today taking latency measurements and going between 4.1 and 5.0b just to be sure and the results are in: the VC in 5.0 actually is better, even if there was no dedicated and focused improvement to the block. I can only assume some of the other under the hood changes in this update affected the workings of the VC (maybe the Pitch block as a whole; I didn't test anything else because I don't use anything else).
Equipment used for the test:
Methods:
Results:
Discussion:
I'm obsessed with latency; I'm very sensitive to it. But I'm very pleased with how well the VC works in 5.0b. I conducted similar tests a while ago with the Axe Fx III, Drop Pedal, HX Stomp, and the Variax. This was before I had my FM3 (video was recorded in March of last year; needs an update). I had also tested the HX's Poly Pitch, not the Poly Capo. I can't find exactly what the difference in terms of algorithm, if any, but there are fewer/different parameters in the Poly Capo.
My final analysis is that the current FM3 Virtual Capo is now up there among the best. It's much more stable than it was before. Cleans still sound a little wonky and warbly when pitch-shifted, but definitely still usable in a full band context (of if you wanna jam to a recording that's tuned down from standard. I'm very excited to get together with the band this weeks and see if it maintains the stability and consistency that it exhibited during my tests and jamming. I no longer feel the need to go back to my Axe Fx III & FC6 setup.
I know this has become a contentious topic on these and other forums, and I know the old-school people eschew tech like this and just bring extra guitars, tune down, or transpose the song to work in their current tuning, but at least this gives us one more option. I've been gigging the VC in 4.1 for quite a while so I've learned to work with its quirks. This improved stability will make using it much more relaxing.
All this to say: Even though the FM3 didn't receive the Axe Fx III/FM9's improved Pitch Block update, the Virtual Capo is, in fact, better; if only incrementally, it's still better than it was. I look forward to the full 5.0 release and whatever comes next!
EDIT 2/10: The VC in 5.00 official release rocks just as it did from the first beta.
EDIT: Despite my (and others') conjecture here and elsewhere, it has been confirmed by Cliff over at TGP that the pitch block was, in fact, intentionally improved in this update, despite there not being any mention of it anywhere and zero response in any VC-related thread. I had a chance to tag him in a post and his response was affirmative. Thank you, Cliff!!
OP:
After some deliberation about whether or not to update to 5.0b with a gig coming up this week, I decided to back up my presets and go for it. Other than the one bug I found in the virtual capo described here (which I'm now understanding is a known issue), I was pleasantly surprised to find that it works better and faster than in 4.1. I spent some time today taking latency measurements and going between 4.1 and 5.0b just to be sure and the results are in: the VC in 5.0 actually is better, even if there was no dedicated and focused improvement to the block. I can only assume some of the other under the hood changes in this update affected the workings of the VC (maybe the Pitch block as a whole; I didn't test anything else because I don't use anything else).
Equipment used for the test:
- Variax JTV-59 using magnetic pups
- Shure Beta 58
- Motu M4 Interface
- 2018 Mac Mini running Logic Pro X
- HX Stomp running FW 3.1
- FM3 running 4.1 and 5.0b
Methods:
- Plugged the Beta 58 into channel 1 of the M4.
- Plugged the guitar modelers' output into input 2 of the M4
- Recorded tracks simultaneously by tapping the mic to a string near the bridge of the guitar between 5 and 10 times at 1 second intervals so the mic sound was recorded at the same time the magnetic pickups would pick up the sound.
- Zoom in on WAV files to compare start of sound (mic signal) with the various modelers' & configurations' latency-delayed sound.
- Control: plugged the guitar straight into input 2 and performed step 3 above, resulting in a 0ms latency difference of the measured signals.
- Resolution: whole number latency in ms (in other words, you won't see 2.345ms latency).
- Precision: Measurements are approximate with a margin of error of 1-2ms; when you zoom super far in to a WAV graphic, it can be difficult to determine precisely where the signal actually starts, but you can get amazingly close.
- Note: I only tested pitch shifting by 1/2 step or 1 semitone.
Results:
- HX Stomp FW 3.1 blank preset: 2ms
- HX Stomp FW 3.1 Poly Capo: 20ms
- FAS FM3 FW 4.1 blank preset: 3ms
- FAS FM3 FW 4.1 VC-Only Preset: 20-80ms, occasional double/repeated notes
- FAS FM3 FW 4.1 VC in full preset: 20-65ms
- FAS FM3 FW 5.0b blank preset: 3ms
- FAS FM3 FW 5.0b VC-only preset: 20ms
- FAS FM3 FW 5.0b VC in full preset: 20ms
- Digitech Drop: 20ms
- Variax Electric model 1/2 down: 18ms
- Variax acoustic model 1/2 down: 24ms
Discussion:
I'm obsessed with latency; I'm very sensitive to it. But I'm very pleased with how well the VC works in 5.0b. I conducted similar tests a while ago with the Axe Fx III, Drop Pedal, HX Stomp, and the Variax. This was before I had my FM3 (video was recorded in March of last year; needs an update). I had also tested the HX's Poly Pitch, not the Poly Capo. I can't find exactly what the difference in terms of algorithm, if any, but there are fewer/different parameters in the Poly Capo.
My final analysis is that the current FM3 Virtual Capo is now up there among the best. It's much more stable than it was before. Cleans still sound a little wonky and warbly when pitch-shifted, but definitely still usable in a full band context (of if you wanna jam to a recording that's tuned down from standard. I'm very excited to get together with the band this weeks and see if it maintains the stability and consistency that it exhibited during my tests and jamming. I no longer feel the need to go back to my Axe Fx III & FC6 setup.
I know this has become a contentious topic on these and other forums, and I know the old-school people eschew tech like this and just bring extra guitars, tune down, or transpose the song to work in their current tuning, but at least this gives us one more option. I've been gigging the VC in 4.1 for quite a while so I've learned to work with its quirks. This improved stability will make using it much more relaxing.
All this to say: Even though the FM3 didn't receive the Axe Fx III/FM9's improved Pitch Block update, the Virtual Capo is, in fact, better; if only incrementally, it's still better than it was. I look forward to the full 5.0 release and whatever comes next!
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