I'm stumped: volume issues

R

RockerAlex

Inspired
So today was my first practice with the Axe II and Matrix GT1000FX, and even though it was put through some shitty Behringer 4x12 supplied by the practice space, everybody agreed that it sounded awesome ... BUT I couldn't keep up with the volumes of everybody else at all, especially the drums. I had the Matrix turned up full and my Axe so high that the red clipping lights on the Matrix were coming on and making this terrible noise after every note had rang out.

I have no idea whether or not the cab was faulty but I just didn't seem to be able to get my shit up loud enough to compete with everybody else without clipping the Matrix, am I missing something here?
 
What was the watts rating on the 4 ohm cab?
Were all the speakers actually working?
Good quality speaker cable?

I see you were in parallel mono mode - then you'd be generating around 500 watts @ 4 Ohms if all the lights were constantly on in the Matrix ..... I'm guessing the rating of the Behringer was around 400w @ 4Ohms - possible that you might have melted a driver or 2 in the cab? :)
 
Check your presets. If this is the first time you've played your Axe-FX in a gig-level band setting, you may have too much high/low to cut through. Tones that sound great by themselves can get lost in the mix. Tones that sound great in the mix can sound dull and sterile by themselves.
 
maxdown said:
What was the watts rating on the 4 ohm cab?
Were all the speakers actually working?
Good quality speaker cable?

I see you were in parallel mono mode - then you'd be generating around 500 watts @ 4 Ohms if all the lights were constantly on in the Matrix ..... I'm guessing the rating of the Behringer was around 400w @ 4Ohms - possible that you might have melted a driver or 2 in the cab? :)
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Perhaps I could have done a bit of damage, but that doesn't explain how the cab was too quiet from the very start of the practice, I just couldn't get it loud enough at all ...

Rex said:
Check your presets. If this is the first time you've played your Axe-FX in a gig-level band setting, you may have too much high/low to cut through. Tones that sound great by themselves can get lost in the mix. Tones that sound great in the mix can sound dull and sterile by themselves.
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I'd like to believe that's the problem but I generally think that I just wasn't able to get up loud enough for some reason, I hope it was a faulty can because usually my problem is being too loud!
 
I agree, either check your presets or check the cab/cables/etc. I run the GT800 into 8 ohms 1x12... I have the Axe Out 1 turned down to about -8, the Matrix vol around 30% and it's still plenty loud.
 
Doing the final dial presets at in or around your preferred stage volume is good advice .... same with any amp regular cab setup. My live patches on my old setup of JMP-1/FX/Mesa 50/50/2x 1x12 cabs sounded horrible at low bedroom volumes or using the 'compensated' DI - so I had a set of tweaked patches for that - and if I hit one of those by mistake in a live gig my sound was way too much overdriven and mid scooped to cut through.

You're probably going to have to drag your Mesa 4x12 with you next time and get the rest of the guys to be a bit patient as you tweak.
 
jefferski said:
I agree, either check your presets or check the cab/cables/etc. I run the GT800 into 8 ohms 1x12... I have the Axe Out 1 turned down to about -8, the Matrix vol around 30% and it's still plenty loud.
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I'm hoping it was just the cab, my Mesa 4x12 at home seems to be plenty loud at Matrix noon Axe 9 o'clock, I've never had either knob up full.
 
RockerAlex said:
I'd like to believe that's the problem but I generally think that I just wasn't able to get up loud enough for some reason, I hope it was a faulty can because usually my problem is being too loud!
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Check out all possibilities, for sure, but don't be too quick to dismiss any of them.

Here's a simple test: put a PEQ at the end of one of your presets that has a 6 dB hump centered around 800 Hz. Make it broad; set the Q to 0.4 or thereabouts. Make sure you're your not clipping when the PEQ is engaged. Then bypass it.

Next time you're playing with the band and having trouble cutting through, unbypass that PEQ. If that helps you cut, then you need to tweak your preset at volume, in a full mix of instruments.
 
If you say ur cab at home is plenty loud and also say the practice room cab was bad from get go maybe the cab alrdy had previous damage done? If u have a spl meter check your db's at home. If possible give it a good crank. Them check it at the rehearsal space again. If at home ur pushing good air and not as loud at rehearsal cranked then I would think that speaker has seen better days and wouldn't worry. Then again I'm no expert on any of this and can be wayyyyyy off. For last 2 yrs I've been a frfr guy. 3 yrs b4 that a 1x12 guy, two yr b4 that a 2x12 guy. I couldn't even tell u what a 4x12 looks like anymore haha
 
I think something were miswired.

A single channel of the GT1000FX will output 500W near clipping, you should be deaf and the 4x12" should be on fire!

Did you use a SINGLE speaker cable from one of the channels of the matrix to the speaker?
Was the speaker configured in mono?
Are you sure the Matrix were clipping?
And so on...
 
GiRa said:
I think something were miswired.

A single channel of the GT1000FX will output 500W near clipping, you should be deaf and the 4x12" should be on fire!

Did you use a SINGLE speaker cable from one of the channels of the matrix to the speaker?
Was the speaker configured in mono?
Are you sure the Matrix were clipping?
And so on...
Click to expand...

I think I'll have to give Matrix a call or retry practice with my 4x12 this time ... I had red lights blinking on the Matrix, I assume that means it's clipping? I made a horrible feedback noise after every note rang out regardless of how high the noise gate was.
 
Before your next rehearsal (with your own 4x12) I'd advise you to set up the Axe and presets you plan to use so that they can't overload the cab with the Matrix full open! Frying a driver or two in a Behringer 4x12 is sort of expected and not much of a challenge probably - but you won't want to be doing that to your Mesa I expect.

Matrix Matt posted up the tables of output power based on the Matrix input led behaviour here. I'm guessing your Mesa is rated as 240 W at 8 Ohms if you've got v30s loaded in it? So IMO you really should aim to limit to an absolute maximum of 200 W output at it from the Matrix with it's inputs turned up full. That post also has paulmapp explaining the method to do this using the Global EQ level slider on the Axe and the input leds on the Matrix.

If you set it up like that and can stand in the same room with 4 v30s pumping a supposed 200 watts then something definitely is not right!

I'd also probably set up a simple amp block with maybe a PEQ block after it only preset to use as a test - keep the peq bypassed until you feel you need it and tweak the amp block tone and gain controls at loud volume to see if you get the tone to cut through. Sounds quite patronising I know ..... but it takes so little effort and it was best advice I ever got.

Bet ya need to turn the amp drive down and master up :p

Edit: Also - the higher you turn up the Axe output volume the more microphonic it becomes just like any preamp - so it will squeal with high gain tones ....
 
I jut got my axefxll and a gt1000 i have my volume up half way on the gt and half way on the axefx playing through 2 4×12 16 ohm cabs and mines loud enough for my band and i have to ware ear plugs we play so loud
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, I'm having Matt from Matrix give me a call today to go over some things and from now on I'll just use my own 4x12 as it doesn't seem to be making any strange noises up loud ... For now.
 
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