I'm Just Going to Leave This Here

I have to put my own 2 cents in on the Guitar Center thing. I hope Fractal NEVER puts its products in their stores. The product knowledge of MOST of the employees at Guitar Center is nil to none.It would be a disaster and misrepresentation if someone at GC had to show the product to their customer, more than just turning it on and letting them play, especially at that price point. I feel it would hurt Fractal reputation to first time purchasers if it wasn't shown correctly. I have been to Guitar Centers Pensacola, Orlando, Atlanta, New Orleans and Mobile and for the most part ended up not buying from them and going to locally owned music stores. The service is a disgrace.
After having such bad service at GC New Orleans I went directly to the store manager to order a Boss FV500 expression/ vol pedal. I was right there with him, he wrote it down on his sheet, had him repeat the model to me because the cheap non expression version is the FV50, anyways, sure enough when it came in FV 50 not FV500. That was my last straw, I will never purchase from GC again. Such a shame because they are wonderful stores.
One other note, before that FV500 thing my Line 6 Wireless cable went out. I like having a backup to everything so knowing you had to order that cable online I called GC to see if they had another Line 6 g55 relay guitar wireless. The guy that answered the phone actually told me Line 6 doesn't make wireless units............................................................

I used to work at Guitar Center Pensacola, and you're comments are pretty accurate for the most part. We had a couple of individuals who really knew there stuff but for the most part management is not concerned with their sales team knowing all the details (or else the product training tests wouldn't give you infinite chances to get the correct answer on a multiple choice test lol). Most of the sales team are only concerned with selling items that will make them money as opposed to what products are actually good quality. I was not very good at this, felt very used car salesman-y to me. The only reason I still shop with them is for discounts.
 
It's just you.. :eek: It's about the musician, not the gear. These are just tools.. If your playing sucks, it does not matter what kind of "exclusive" you own.



err, is it only me? I don't want AX-8 be cheap enough so everyone on the market can buy it, cause I kinda like the "exclusivity" of FAS Products :)
 
As someone who is saving up for an Axe-Fx II at the moment, the idea of a lower buy in price with limited abilities is extremely desirable. Unfortunately I am not entirely sure if the extra features of the Axe-Fx II would be necessary for me as I have never had the chance to play one for more than 5 minutes. From the clips of FW 18 beta that I have heard, I think I would be satisfied in general though.
 
It's just you.. :eek: It's about the musician, not the gear. These are just tools.. If your playing sucks, it does not matter what kind of "exclusive" you own.

thank God I'm not really that sucks then :D

anyway, whatever the price tag on this product, I believe Cliff will only make good products, and this will sell well on the market mainly because of its quality :)
 
BTW,$10 for Axe FX Amps is not a bad deal at all if you consider they are the best modeling on the markek.

Maybe $9.95 sounds a bit better! ;)


I owned the H9, and algorithms were $19.95. I never thought twice about buying the ones I wanted, although within each algorithm there about a dozen "preset" sounds were bundled with it. If Cliff does this, he shouldn't charge anything lower than $19.95 per amp. He can bundle it together with a dozen presets he's already created with the amp and it's good to go. Did you hear that Cliff? I just doubled your income! :eagerness:

I have already been showing my students and church musicians whats coming as none of the can't afford the Axe FXII, and their excited!:)
 
It lowers the sell cost because there is a certain guaranteed secondary income stream. It's a common business model nowadays: sell the product for less than you normally would and make up the difference in software downloads or monthly fees. The lower the entry cost the more people will buy one. The ultimate example of this is printers. They practically give them away. They make the money back on the ink or toner cartridges.

I think there's probably room for both the current and this new model, really.

I personally, along with most other Axe-Fx buyers I'm sure, bought the Axe-Fx at the price I did knowing that part the reason for the premium fee was that free updates for the life of the product was part of the deal, and it has absolutely been the most rewarding musical purchase I have ever made by a huge margin. For the Axe-Fx III or whatever product comes next, I would personally like to continue paying up front and looking forward to free updates from there.

However, I know a lot of people who are a bit put off by the initial price of the Axe-Fx (yes, I know it reproduces hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, but 2 grand is still 2 grand) and who would probably jump at a staggered model like what you're talking about.

If you want my opinion, you could probably move to a model that sells:

1. The main unit for $X
2. A "lifetime update package" for $Y - for the people who want to buy everything up front
3. Modular software update packages (amps, effects, etc) for whatever you want to charge per sale.

Also, as time goes on, change the lifetime update package's price for individuals to (lifetime update package original price - whatever the individual has spent on modular updates so far)


Then again, that might open up a whole world of QA issues. (my Axe-Fx is corrupted, I have update packages A, B, C, Q, and R installed.. does that particular combo of updates cause any problems, etc) and also, you'd have to deal with piracy at that point, since by separating and charging for individual amps, you'd be providing incentive for people to try and get them for free. What centralized encryption/decryption system will you put in place to stop piracy and will the incredible inconvenience to legitimate users be worth it (and in the software industry, literally everything that reduces convenience for legit users is always universally panned). So there are definitely a lot of angles that would need covering.



as a final edit: I would also absolutely hate a payment model like this one but that did not include a one-stop "get everything forever" payment option.
 
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I absolutely hate this idea, it puts a bad taste in my mouth instantly. I don't want a subscription to access my gear. I want to own my gear.

One of the biggest joys of owning an Axe-Fx since 2008 has been the steady stream of updates. Playing around with hundreds of amps, FX and features is great fun, even if I don't 'need' all that stuff. I don't want to face a purchase decision every time a new cool thing comes out.

It actually pisses me off that you're even considering this. I'd rather pay a much higher up-front price. I won't buy this device at all if it's only going to be pay as you go. I'll swallow it if you offered it both ways, so we could choose to pay more for the fully-loaded premium version with free access to future updates (same deal as Axe-Fx). But it still rubs me the wrong way honestly.

BTW, just last week Apple's app store introduced 'Pay Once and Play', a new Featured Category with only games that have NO in-app purchases. This exists because LOTS of people have come to HATE in-app purchases and would rather just pay a fair price up front. Due to growing backlash, more game developers were already switching back to this old-school pay model, and now that the category exists the trend will only accelerate.

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I don't think that price range is realistic, Fractal have never made any noise about even desiring to make something that cheap. They're about quality components and not cutting corners, I think that much we can all agree on, so I think right there... fantasy shattered!

Hell... even that price range is out of a lot of people's budgets!

Without knowing the actual unit production cost it's really impossible to say what it's going to sell for. Now that we know that FAS can't compete in the Line 6 market place it's probably safe to say his cost is at or above that units pricing point, I suppose that makes sense.

Personally using Eventides H9 marketing concept is a smart move. Having a tiered package offering for the customer to choose from with additional Amps and Cabs for sale to me is a winner and would be what I would do to keep the initial cost down and allow the consumer to decide what they want load in for for Amps and Cabs.
 
So true. I haven't purchased ink in over 4 years. I have though owned 6 printers over that time period. When the ink dries up on the latest I look for the next rebated promotion/deal. My latest Cannon (xxxxx) ended up costing $9.99.
Damn Craig, You are creating one hell of a big carbon foot print. LOL
 
I more in favor of paying more with free updates than the pay per amp (PPA) or pay per feature (PPF) thing. I think the resale value would also be better if the features are standardized... It would be less confusing.
 
Cliff... don't change a damn thing. Fractal Audio means cutting edge digital modelling, The absolute best in customer service; pre and post sale (including all the updates) and all with the quality that musicians of today/ future demand. Your product and its quality speak for itself. The prices may appear to be high at first until they get one and realize what a bargain your products are. I would like to request that you keep/ continue your AXE FX line of products to same as you've always have. There is absolutely nothing available that can touch it. Everything Fractal Audio is world class. People know this. Protect your Baby.
 
Exactly what I have been wanting. A stripped down, sound as good, version of my Axe Fx 2. It will sound as good.... right? :/ hehe
 
We've been contemplating that. This would lower the initial cost. Then sell amp models at $10 each or something.

That sounds like a good idea. Can I get a discount for not having a ring modulator? :) Actually, I'd pay $10 extra to have it removed.

If you go that route, please do a MAX program like Eventide did though. Once you have a MAX you get all future models included. This allows folks to pay up front that want to.
 
It lowers the sell cost because there is a certain guaranteed secondary income stream. It's a common business model nowadays: sell the product for less than you normally would and make up the difference in software downloads or monthly fees. The lower the entry cost the more people will buy one. The ultimate example of this is printers. They practically give them away. They make the money back on the ink or toner cartridges.

Please send me a free Ax8 and I promise to buy lots of ink & toners for it :)
 
Two versions - MAX, with everything thrown in and MIN with 5 amps - 2 Fenders, a Marshall, a Vox and a Boogie. Perfectly useable out of the box (and you OWN it - who said anything about 'subscriptions'?)
$10 per new amp. Free updates for everything you have bought. Perfect for a XL owner like me. I know EXACTLY which amps I need and would be happy to buy 'em and the Ax8

There's something that a lot of people here don't understand. Cliff (& gang) has to make decisions on how to grow the company. Remaining a high-ticket direct-only manufacturer is not viable if you want to grow and have fun designing lots of new things. You need serious cash-flow. Diffusing the company's expertise into a range of more profitable but lower-cost products that sell in proportionally larger numbers is a time-honoured route. The trick is of course to this without diluting the brand through lower product quality. We need to support this and not get too precious with 'our' Fractal. In the end we get more cool stuff to play with.
 
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