I'm addicted to Supply Sag

GreatGreen said:
This of it this way, Tanax. The higher the Sag control is set, the more it sounds like the amplifier is struggling. Simple as that!

Setting the Sag control really high probably wouldn't be very conducive to the sound you're looking to achieve.
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Ah, I suppose that's a good way of looking at it :)
But yes, setting it high didn't produce the sound I'm looking for. Still good to know what the control does!
 
Epidemic Warning:

The rapid propagation of the Supply-Sag Syndrome through the simple touch of un-protected fingers can have adverse side effects over the business of vintage tube amplifiers.

:eek:
 
Would it be out of the question to request for this parameter to be given a modifier? Would be cool to crank it in sync with a wah or an envelope
 
when i was deployed i got real good at pick timing because my interface latency was so slow using guitar rig that it had a noticeable lag, like 15-30 ms sometimes. i got used to adjusting my playing to record along with midi drum tracks, it's kind of fun to play with deliberately sometimes. i was messing with the delay on the chorus block set to 100% wet, with like 10 or 15ms of delay, does the same thing. but just tried sag at 10, that's MUCH MORE FUN. it's not abrupt though, you don't hear an actual delay, but you start playing and it like grabs you by shirt collar and and drags you backwards, it's like playing through syrup. DELICIOUS! (it makes me feel like i'm stoned or something.)

i bet the reason it sounds so good is that music's feel in general is primarily from timing. behind the beat is always good, you can get away with a LOT behind the beat, but seldom does it sound good to rush, it sounds like the music tripped and fell on it's face. with sag at 10 it basically makes you behind the beat always trying to catch up. the same effect as if you were 80 years old and grey haired, like Dean DeLeo or Keith Richard, and just naturally chill (slow), so you could play a marshall and have it sound syrupy. it's from the timing, sitting behind the beat but holding on still. THAT'S WHY RECTOS SOUND SOUND BADASS. because they add time, but frequency dependent and dynamic dependant from impedance/power flex.

next time you program drums take the entire snare line and command-right it a few samples, see how it do fo you. !!! o_O
 
FractalAudio said:
Is it wrong that I like this cranked almost all the way up?
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I think the feeling of sag is what initially attracted me to my first tube amp. I liken it to a kind of resonance between the player and his/her mind. It reminds me of some ridiculous but liked leads I came up with using a delay, with the dry signal turned off. The slight, or not so slight lag time induces a creativity that I can't explain, but its like some sort of "auditioning process" that stimulates me to add nuances to the notes I'm holding, or to hear things in a way.

But unlike with the dry-off delay stuff, which works better at more than 100 ms, for me the sag effect breathes, and I still get reasonably little of an actual latency effect, but it seems that there is sort of a textured latency unevenly applied to various parts of the tone. I have no idea what this would look like graphed out.

A sustain pedal on a piano also has this effect of heightening my creativity. But with the guitar and sag its different - it nurtures creativity also, but its more of a melting of the "idea you thought you had" into something different, whereas with sustain on a piano (and long, eg cavernous, reverb on a guitar?) its sort of a wide open palette that sticks musical paint to one, and so doesn't so nicely keep moving out of your way after it inspires you.

During a lot of fast shred lines there may be no chance or need for this kind of creativity, that involves slight changes in dynamics, pressure, vibrato and such. With them I suppose its better that the intensity of the line is conceived of fully, moment by moment, and that's okay.

Its the "between the moments", or overlapping effect of sag that I like.

Frank Marino comes up with insanely good note bends and ideas because he gives himself a lot more room to breath within "the time", and I suppose its similar for me with sag.

On a lot of medium or lower gain sounds I usually like sag very high, and for me there is no longer any shame, although when I had my Ultra I did use to wonder what was wrong with me.
 
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FractalAudio said:
Is it wrong that I like this cranked almost all the way up?
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Nothing wrong at all Cliff, you like what you like. I really dig this parameter too. It adds some bounce and breath to the tone to my ears. It's one of my go-to parameters to dial in an amp for the low/mid gain more vintage rock stuff I like to play, along with transformer match, negative feedback, and dynamic character.
 
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I'm addicted to Gain and I don't care if it's wrong that I like it cranked almost all the way up. :p
 
Is there a sound sample of this parameter being used in an extreme way? I don't own a fractal and looking to buy one but wonder if I'm going to be better off with pedals for the types of sounds I want. I really like extreme fuzzes and sounds of decay. People who are familiar with the smallsound/bigsound F*ck Overdrive know what I'm talking about with the crackle switch. Supposedly it is an envelope controlled modulation over bias and sag (an approximation obviously).

It seems like the fractal with all its parameters can do the broken, decaying, spitting, velcro fuzzed out amp sound but I haven't come across any examples of it doing it. I'm sure that's because most people want the exact opposite sound haha.

Thanks!
 
If the sound of failing gear is your thing, you can dial in Fractal gear to get you there. Sag can be a part of that, but by itself, it's more of a fattener. Extreme settings of Bias and Crunch will be a good start. Preamp bias will be more pedal-like, without the subtle nuances of power tube failure. Bit reduction can make your sound even shittier. :)
 
Woah sounds great!

Good to know there are a bunch of other things that I can tweak to get some "messed up" sounds. I'm assuming that the sounds of these controls will vary depending on the model as well.

Not to get too off topic but are there cab IRs of torn speakers or other broken elements?
 
@megamaeng going off the beaten path is ridiculously easy with the Axe-FX. I love it for what it lets me do that's impossible in real life without causing fires. :) There are a lot of knobs you can turn to make wholly unique sounds.

I've not encountered IRs of torn speakers but now I want to try one! There are IRs of strange things out there you can try.
 
iaresee said:
@megamaeng going off the beaten path is ridiculously easy with the Axe-FX. I love it for what it lets me do that's impossible in real life without causing fires. :) There are a lot of knobs you can turn to make wholly unique sounds.

I've not encountered IRs of torn speakers but now I want to try one! There are IRs of strange things out there you can try.
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Awesome! That's what drew me to the axe fx in the first place more than the real life modeling. It was the fact that I could tweak stuff that I wouldn't be able to in real life and save those happy accidents
 
Rex said:
You can't capture nonlinearities in an IR. In other words, you can't model a torn speaker without a distortion engine, and IRs don't capture distortion.
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Ahh well I guess I was getting too greedy there haha. Foiled by science again!
 
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