I'll never understand what makes it so difficult...

And I gave up on factory IR long back, too many duds there

Again, this flat statement is not a "measurable" thing for every set of ears, altho is a strongly felt opinion I'm sure. So the question is "if" it were measurable, which IR's need to be avoided so that we newbs of the Axe-FX III can spend more time playing?
 
IR selection and auditing remains an area that Fractal could and should innovate and improve, it’s really a daunting task for new users.

I have spent years with my tons of IRs, and know my ways around and have a bunch of go-tos but for new user randomly auditioning IRs is doomed to be frustrating experience....

This is why Helix has its stock cab UI, QC also has an intuitive IR selector UI intuitively based on cab, mic and positions. Heck, my User IRs in Axe III are also currently organized in similar ways. And I gave up on factory IR long back, too many duds there...
But thus it makes it mysterious for all of us even with so called experience ones, cause you never know what interesting combination you're going to find out. The other good side of it is that you can learn something new about mics, mic positions, speaker characteristics and so on. Everything has its benefit.
 
There are definitely a number of knowledge and usability things you have to get your head around on the Axe (or modelers in general) before you can get to the point of "I just plop a couple blocks down and have a sound I like!".

Modellers in general:
  • Are you used to dealing with and dialing mic'd sounds
  • Are you familiar with your playback device of choice
  • Are you used to dialing in headphones, and know the tricks of using room reverbs to help it feel more natual
  • Do you know how master volume works? In specific, Master Volume is confusing on modellers. First, you don't have oppressive volume keeping you from turning it too high. Second, on the axe the taper is different so you can't just copy the setting you used on your own amp. Third, and this one a lot of people miss: amps with multiple volume controls (channel Master then global master, like Output on mesa amps, etc) introduce a whole new level of complexity. Having two different master volume controls at slightly different points just before the power amp doesn't add anything to a model but confusion. But on real amps, they were necessary to volume level multi-channel amps even if tonally redundant. If you have the channel master at 4 and then the output at 4, the equivalent setting on a modeler (forgetting taper changes for now) isn't 4, it's much lower, since your output level has been attenuated twice on the real amp. The quick version is if your channel mater is attentuating your signal to 50%, and your global master is attenuating to 50%, then your single master should be attenuating it to 25% to be equivalent.
  • There are many amps that do involve setting down for a few hours and learning the ins and outs. On a modelling you have so many at once you might forget to pick one and just learn it.

But then the Axe FX has a handful of things that make it harder to get into in particular:
  • It's wildly flexible, but that flexibility means there's a lot that's incomprehensible when you're just starting.
  • Choosing IRs is not friendly. When you add a cab block to a fresh preset, it defaults to the 1x8" Pignose IR. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn when I say this IR is situational at best, and not anybody's first choice for general tones. But this is what you get by default every time. If you remembered to add the cab block. By contrast, line6 lets you pick amp+cab combos as the first choice, which default an amp and a matching cab at a dialed in default setting. You can split the cab out or use an IR as a secondary choice, but when you're first learning it gets you rolling quickly. And when you do figure out you need to pick an IR, you have 2000 to choose from, and for higher gain tones most of the 412 options are in bank 2. Once you learn that it's fine, but these are speedbumps to a new user.
  • The newer Axe FX III preference for single mics vs mixes also means people choosing IRs have to learn some esoterica about micing amps.
  • Amp default settings also can work against you. On many amps noon is fine, but on "harder to dial" amps (meaning amps where noon doesn't sound good) this causes confusion too.

And there's blocks, channels, scenes, presets, parallel routing, multiple inputs and outputs, control switches, modifiers, etc. Lots of arcana to be learned to really get comfortable.

So I think when someone says "It's too hard to dial in" they shouldn't be trying to say "It's hard to make it sound good" but should be saying "I don't know enough about how to use it so I'm frustrated by it".

Edit: I'm not saying this to disparage FA. But some of these issues do exist for new users. And some of them can't be easily changed without crippling some of the flexibility we specifically like the FA ecosystem for. But understanding it helpful, because when you run into a person like that instead of going "What kind of idiot are you?" it's more constructive to understand where they might have hit a roadblock and be able to help.
 
I feel like when someone says that what they mean is "I like IR mixes that already sound nice, having to audition mic combinations is something I am not familiar with yet"
Right - and it's not terribly surprising.

If you've never use an IR in your rig before, your mindset is "I plug into a cabinet or combo and I get what that cabinet sounds like." How many guitar players just play through an amp and assume that the soundguy will mic it?

It's not like it's rocket science, but it is something that a lot of players have never worried about before, so they're starting from the absolute basics.
 
I feel like when someone says that what they mean is "I like IR mixes that already sound nice, having to audition mic combinations is something I am not familiar with yet"

Most likely!

So that's what they should say, IMO. But, this is the internet.
 
good point. I can see some people being overwhelmed by the choice of IRs.
+1 on this. The average person can handle dozens or maybe low hundreds of IRs to choose from, not thousands. They want the cab that “matches” the amp they chose. They’re not familiar with all the microphones and seeing a dozen IRs for the same cab is too much. The average user or beginner would have a much easier time with a small, curated selection of Mix IRs.
 
Fractal axe fx 3 is a multi level machine. You can keep things simple or be as complicated as you want. To me that's the point of this great tool. Other machines can sound good too but if you learn how to go deep in tweaking you simply can't do it. With Axe 3 you can have multiple approaches. That's amazing and, challenging at the same time. đź‘Ť
 
I also had and have bandmates who sounds strange and untight independent of gear because they always raise up gain too much, don't want to deal with their own gear too much (no learning or trying), do not proper palmmutes, little back in timing and didn't set up their guitar right or even use the wrong pickup...

I'm really not one of the greatest guitarist but I inform myself about my gear and try to play straight in timing and do palmmutes with highgain sounds, use thick plectrum and aggressive picking instead of blame it on the gear.
One time I had to use a 250€ Behringer Modelling Amp for a Gig because my Johnson was broken and it took much time to get at least one usable sound out of it. But i got it and after the Gig I got praise for my good sound... I was surprised because of the lousy amp.

Back in college, I remember this one show where the guy had one of those old, tiny Line6 spider amps. He dialed it in about as well as was possible, but it obviously wasn’t a great tone. Thing is, he played really well and had great stage presence. The mediocre tone was of no concern next to the quality of his musicianship. Everyone was impressed and the only people who cared that it came from a Line6 Spider were me and my guitar playing buddy (who happened to also have a Line6 Spider).
 
To me, the Axe-Fx excels in the quality of its tones, and at being completely, infinitely tweakable.

For recording or playing gigs with your band, having decent soundcheck opportunities, it’s pretty hard to beat.

HOWEVER, if you’re in any kind of environment with new or unknown variables, like where you will need to improv or tweak/adapt your sounds to the musicians around you in real time, and you don’t have a computer running the editor in front of you, there is simply too much menu diving required for most people. I can completely understand some people just not getting along with the workflow. That said, I personally think the front panel is fantastic for what it is, and love Fractal’s overall approach to UI design, but given everything the Axe-Fx can do, there is no front panel interface I can think of that would give you anything approaching a WYSIWYG style, “1 controllable parameter = 1 physical knob/button/switch” traditional interface you get with real amps and pedals.

I love my Axe-Fx and will happily use it if I’m ever recording or playing pre-rehearsed shows. I’d even say that if I had to choose, I’d pick it over my tube amps and real pedals.

But for just having a rig to show up somewhere new with? I’m sticking with a traditional amp and pedalboard with straightforward effects. Even though they are more limited in the total scope of the sounds they can give you, their ability to let you immediately tweak any setting within that smaller scope is preferable and just easier to work with over modeling's infinite sounds that require preparation and menu-diving to achieve. And nobody, nobody, wants to sit around and wait on somebody to poke and prod at their gear to get it to work for them, killing any vibe that might have been building.

tl;dr:
Modeling, or at least Fractal's modeling, is preferable when you have time to tweak. However, traditional rigs are preferable when you need "tonal agility" in new or improv settings.
 
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I seem to gravitate toward adjusting stuff "too much". I love the options, so what happens if I get to a place I can't remember how to back out of tone-wise (and I do this often), is I learned to copy the original preset to a whole nother area, and then tweak away on that copy. Then when I need to, I just replace that mess (the copy) I caused with the original (which sounded good in the 1st place most of the time). If I do not fubar the preset and actually like it better, it's then copied with a different name and saved. The moral of this is to BACKUP first while I am learning the ropes. đź‘Ť
 
I have a kemper stage but like I’ve said many times on this forum I’m planning to get a FM3 (or helix) to try the modeling side of things. But to be all inclusive, what I really like about this new age of gear is I feel like I’m training better ears. I don’t really know how all these EQ frequencies work and this parameter or that parameter, but what I’m starting to do is leave the patches that I already made to sound good to my ears alone, copy them into another slot and mess with different eq frequencies just to see what they do. Bump mid gain up to 7 and low gain down 5 for a few songs. What happens? Etc. And I’m hoping one day my ears will just know when somethings got too much low end, mids, highs, or some specific frequency
 
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The 3rd party irs are one mic 🎤 too most of the time, not a combination
Yes and no. Almost all provide single mic options, but OwnHammer and York Audio are very popular in part because they have mixes and summaries available. In fact, on things like the Helix where each IR is a block and you can only fit 128, mixes are a must. And the Axe FX legacy bank is full of mixes which were the only included IRs in previous versions. Especially for the "It's too hard to dial in" crowd having a premade IR mix makes that easier for them until they're ready to dive into single mic or self made mixes.
 
In my experience, most people are trying to match a mixed and mastered recording. They choose the same amp used, but don’t think about the EQ used in the mix to fit with the band, the guitar used, pickups, other gear we don’t know about in the signal chain, cab, speakers and mics used, and most importantly, the guitarist’s technique and playing style.

I helped someone that uses a 0.35 mm pick and couldn’t match the percussive attack of a recording. They tried to get it out of the amp block. I asked if they had a thicker pick, they did, and it was instantly what they wanted.

It’s not always the amp.
Like you say, it's a finished product that many try to replicate. It's practically impossible to get it dead on most always, and that isn't really the fault of our gear - no-matter how good that gear is. It's Their Gear, "they", in general, that we don't have access to, which cause the headaches.

Another thing too.. Ear-fatigue.. For me, that's a real thing. These days, generally, I just get it close - ballpark - even when I know it's not close enough. Get it ballpark today, tomorrow I am better able to fine-tune. Too-long spent tweaking in a single sitting - for me - the next day I found that whatever I was working on sounds awful after a decent break.

I learned long-ago that although the day before a marathon tweaking session I might have convinced myself I was getting nearer the goal-posts, in another sitting, I found that - for all that work - I ended up with a preset much worse than I initially and very-quickly dialed in that day before.

These days, for me, as long as the amp sounds close with the grit or chime, I can dial the majority of the rest of the way in with a cab selection. Everything outside that is so much easier to dial in afterwards.

A person can always Google amp/cab/speaker/effects setups before they begin, too. Oftentimes that information is out there, and - with a good modeler - it will get a person in the right ballpark where they want to be pretty-much immediately.

Main thing - I found - is to be realistic about what you are trying to achieve. Like you say - it's a culmination of all aspects of That sound that you are trying to replicate. And - even if you could replicate talent and style - which we can't - there is a lot in that finished product - that closed-loop that we just don't have access to.

After decades of screwing around with these types of high-tech things - for me - I keep it as simple as I can. If it sounds good, it's close enough. And it will likely sound close enough to anyone listening, too.

I'm done being the perfectionist. Too much of my time wasted on such a silly pursuit. :0) ..It used to bother me, back in the day, when, after a show, somebody occasionally told me I didn't sound exactly like "that guy".. Today? ... Well, there's a reason for that. I ain't THAT guy! This realization has saved me all manner of sleepless nights. :0)

Anyway.. each to his own and all that. But, for me, close enough is close enough.
 
i am not able to follow, who said “its unusuable” ?! neither your own post nor my response mentions anything about people saying “axe is unusable.”

I thought you were trying to understand why some people are having a hard time with axe fx and are not happy with results.
I posted again w this. I was told the presets were unusable.
 
I have no problems finding plenty of "my tones"... and I get nothing but compliments on my tone and a few people
asking where my amp is and what kind I'm using... LoL!
 
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