If Line6 POD HD500 had better cabinets...

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
... I would buy it. I tought my match-eq technique to a friend of mine who owns a POD HD500. He made clips using the matched IR's he made and well... I think he did a better job than I was able to do with the Axe-Fx. Just listen to these tracks.

THERE'S A CLIP OF THE ORIGINAL TRACKS IN THE END OF EACH POD CLIP!









Why don't they have custom IR's in the POD HD. It would make the product usable. ;)
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong... but I think just about any "modeler" would benefit from the "match-eq technique" being used here (or with the VampIRe technique)... because the "signature sound" is coming mainly from the IR...
 
Sure it would be a good feature in every modeler. Still... I think it's always better to find something of your own rather than use someone elses signature sound. The point of these clips was that the even the POD would pass as a real tube amp if they had better cabs and I'm actually considering buying it anyways. I hope they add the custom IR feature... SOON!
 
Sure, I couldn't agree more since the cab models just SUCK!!!! Tweaking the presence knob is just 100% fail IMHO. The preamps are good though. I haven't A/B'd the preamps with the Axe-Fx preamps but I'd say you can get them sounding just as realistic with proper IR's.
 
Of those, some sound closer to the original than others. Sometimes the first cut, sometimes the second. But really? I don't think the first takes or second takes are any degree 'better' than the other. Just different.

I do agree with you on the actual point though - the IR is at least 50% - if not MORE - of the tone. They are of the highest importance if you run FRFR, beyond even the amp in many cases.
 
The second take is the original track. I didn't realize it at first when my friend gave these clips to me. Sure you can hear that some clips might have more bass and some a tad more fizz but honestly I think these tones are at least 95% perfect.

The whole A/B thing is a bit messed up because the original and pod clips are not the same volume. You can see it in the pics of the waves. You kinda have to set aside the fact that the volume is different. That might be the reason some cut more than others.

I'm actually very surprised that the Mark IIC+ and Mark IV tones sound almost identical to the original tracks even though we used a Recto sim for all these clips. I'm starting to wonder how close we could get to tones out of any amp with just a simple match EQ function. Maybe that's what the Kemper Profiling Amplifier is all about.
 
The second take is the original track. I didn't realize it at first when my friend gave these clips to me. Sure you can hear that some clips might have more bass and some a tad more fizz but honestly I think these tones are at least 95% perfect.

The whole A/B thing is a bit messed up because the original and pod clips are not the same volume. You can see it in the pics of the waves. You kinda have to set aside the fact that the volume is different. That might be the reason some cut more than others.

I'm actually very surprised that the Mark IIC+ and Mark IV tones sound almost identical to the original tracks even though we used a Recto sim for all these clips. I'm starting to wonder how close we could get to tones out of any amp with just a simple match EQ function. Maybe that's what the Kemper Profiling Amplifier is all about.

I highly suspect you are correct in that assumption, IMHO.
 
Me too... but still a simple match EQ got a Recto sounding like a Mark series amp. That's weird.

Not as weird as you'd believe. What is an amp but sophisticated (or not sophisticated) EQ and amplification stages? Even for ALL the differences, they ALL can be broken down as Cliff exposes in the advanced and amp geek pages. What's the biggest element other than the amp? The cab. Use the same cab, many DIFFERENT amps start to sound VERY similar. Now add something like a Match EQ that is well done and your different amps now sound VERY similar.

For as sophisticated as it all is, it's actually stunningly simple at the same time.
 
Yeah... and matched EQ IR's aren't a good replication of certain cabs. It would be if the same preamp was used with the same settings and guitar but that's almost impossible to do. What it can do is make the gear that you are using sound just close to a recorded tone. Like these clips f.ex. have amp controls at 12 o'clock and if you use these IR's they will produce the same sound as the original album. Using different amp settings doesn't work as well as you'd hope.
 
Yeah... and matched EQ IR's aren't a good replication of certain cabs. It would be if the same preamp was used with the same settings and guitar but that's almost impossible to do. What it can do is make the gear that you are using sound just close to a recorded tone. Like these clips f.ex. have amp controls at 12 o'clock and if you use these IR's they will produce the same sound as the original album. Using different amp settings doesn't work as well as you'd hope.

Unless you are creating your own tones and not trying to copy what someone else does. And at some point, I think you will come to both welcome and take hold of that.

What I see is a lot of folks still in the 'sound like this or that' phase of playing guitar; at some point (sooner than later) you realize the folly of it as you mature as a player. Some never do, and frankly it's sad. (Witness the hundreds of 40-something (and 50-something) EVH wanna-be's on YouTube). Or the hardcore Robben Ford wanna-be's over on TGP. Or the Huff/Landau/Lukather cats on HRI. Or all the Edge wanna-be's scattered across the web.

At some point, you'd hope they'd want their own signature sounds.
 
@Clark:

I personally didn't see anything anymore impressive than what Line6 has on the POD X3, which is only a revamp of its older Pod studio anyway. It's teeth sink in my heart as a it's software is the easiest I've ever used hands down, with barely any learning curve. Plus, no rack mount makes my floor hard to walk on, and gives everyone stubbed toes.


@Scott, I couldn't have said it better myself.

This is a very hard thing to accept as a musician, playing guitar makes it worse. Every product is geared and marketed towards making you sound just like your hero.

Alas, it's the best way to sell products, or else it wouldn't be done that way. It would be uniformed to think, and we all generally realize, most people are playing covers on the weekends or weeknights.
It would much easier to sound better with an AXE, if there was some direction to take with a better, and increasingly organized patch sharing site.

Finding your own sound takes years. Learning tone-stacking, and where to place what effect where, which one you need, and then figuring out how to connect it uniquely takes more time and money than needed.
Personally the Axe takes care of it all for me, and was the reason for my purchase: To Learn how to make MY SOUND. I think this is simply easier to achieve on a Pod, but the results aren't nearly as impressive or versatile as the AXE. IN the end the Pod is a plastic toy you'll enjoy, albeit while sounding like someone else. When you get an Axe the world is yours to have.

Sorry for the rant. I have friends who have made great sounding, and selling albums with a POD, but to be fair, from someone who has both, with the Axe the bar has been raised.
My only negative comment is the learning curve.

@ Clark:
If you've ever owned a Pod, the options are freakin endless, and far more organized, but since I got my Axe I only turn it on to copy a patch over to the AXE and post it online. It just sounds better, works better, feels better, and I'm not afraid it will fall apart in a live situation. 1/3 of the price reaches 3 times as many people, its easier to use for the regular guy not trying to be Vai, but nothing compares. Who needs 100 cabinets, 500 presets, 400 heads, 30 mic's, bla bla, you'll never use them all.

My only comparison to make is that the newer Pods usually come with better Acoustic, Bass, Vocal, and Console(like a Neve input track) options, with the corresponding presets included in them when purchased.
There is no reason to think the Axe wont have a majority of these features VERY soon, as it's being constantly asked for, to the point of madness on the forums.

They obviously listen, and while I have both, I for one have had found something better for everyday , as well as weeknight, weekend, and studio use.
I think "HD" is a selling buzz word, and the average person cant tell anyways. Some old Vinyl I have sounds better than the newest the latest Nickleback type HD track in my stereo, car, or iPod. It's about technique and learning how to record with what you have in the end.
I just have both.
 
Sure the Axe-Fx wins hands down when compared to the HD500. I never said it didn't and I'm not comparing the two here. That's not the point of this thread. I own the Axe-Fx and use the HD500 a lot. I know which one is superior.... trust me. :D

I haven't owned Line6 gear before but I did an IR test for a friend with an older Line6 with Redwirez and even the older Line6 started sounding a lot better. IMO the HD series does have the tube feel. The cabs just suck. The first time I tried the HD series I started laughing and said "wtf this is just like boss gt... where's the new technology they were talking about" and sure that's what it sounds like with stock cabs. I wouldn't be using the Line6 cabinets anywhere. Now that I've had the chance to play with it more and try things out I think it works great. Just needs the user cabinet in their next firmware.

About using other people's tones. We all have our own guitar idols and it's a big part of playing guitar. People used to buy certain gear because f.ex. Petrucci started using a new amp and his tone is sooo good on the "new album". Now I'm just waiting to hear more new tones which I can steal with match EQ. Yes, it feels like stealing... I mean let's talk money. How much money did they spend on Petrucci's tone on their last album. Three different Mark IIC+ heads, Mark V, how many cabinets, he had a selection of SM57s and he chose the one that sounded best. What gear is used to capture the tone? I'd say we're talking about several tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. Now with match EQ and a 500€ pedal I get that tone. Is it 100% the same.. no? But if you didn't have the ability to A/B them I could say which was the original and which was "fake". (still just as fake as any modeler) Still I don't think you can hear anything Petrucci-like in my playing unless you hear my solos. :D If the HD series does get the user cabinet option then I'm making this kind of IR's out of my own studio tone. A Single Recto and a 2x12 V30 cab.

IMHO there's no denying that these clips that I posted in the original post are in any way inferior to the clips we get with the Axe-Fx. If these were Axe-Fx patches my inbox would (once again ;) ) be filled with patch sharing requests. Not stating it as a fact... I'm just assuming it's how it would've gone.
 
Quote- If it had better cabs?. If your aunt had balls she would be your uncle! but she hasn't, nor has it so it remains a donkey.
 
Yes but the preamps work great with a real amp. Actually the POD HD Mesa Recto preamp was closer to the real Recto than any of the Axe-Fx Recto preamps. (just A/B/C'd them an hour ago) And if you use IR's in your DAW then it's like your aunt getting plastic surgery when it's needed. So you can get better cabs for free when recording and right now it seems to work just as well (sad to say maybe better than) the Axe-Fx when I'm running it through an amp.
 
What is an amp but sophisticated (or not sophisticated) EQ and amplification stages? [...]. What's the biggest element other than the amp? The cab. Use the same cab, many DIFFERENT amps start to sound VERY similar. Now add something like a Match EQ that is well done and your different amps now sound VERY similar.
You forgot to mention TONE STACK.
I also think that our ears (brain...) is more selective in the frequency domani, less in level. So a filter could mask/replicate an entire amp... starting from one non linear module (let's face it... guitar preamp circuit topology is reduced to fender 2 gain stages, marshall 3 gain stages plus CF, mesa 4 gain stages, soldano 5 gain stage with cold clipper). Adding a cap or resistor in any stage means simply add a filter.
 
Back
Top Bottom