IEMs + FOH and use of Reverb?

unix-guy

unix-guy

Master of RTFM
I'm just diving into the use of IEMs with band. We have just acquired most of the gear and are now in the process of ordering the IEMs.

My issue is this: I know I am going to need to run reverb on my presets with the IEMs because I have never had a sound I remotely enjoyed on the Axe Fx with headphones unless I add reverb... but I don't normally use much if any reverb, as I've always followed the advice of leaving the reverb off for live performance to keep things from getting buried in the mix and I pretty much never use headphones.

So, should I just send the same output with reverb on to my IEM mix and FOH? I am also planning to run my guitar in stereo (at least for the IEM mix) since we will be using a stereo mix.

I know I could run multiple outputs to get around this... send output 1 to IEMs and output 2 (pre-reverb) to FOH, but with the stereo option I'm now looking at a quagmire (giggity!) of cables.

I'm not one to slather on any effect, and specifically not reverb, so I think it would be used judiciously.

The other option I am considering is using the builtin reverb that is in the Mackie DL32R but since the Axe Fx has a stellar reverb and the Mackie does not, that is a much less appealing option to me.

For those with experience in this area, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kevin
 
unix-guy said:
The other option I am considering is using the builtin reverb that is in the Mackie DL32R but since the Axe Fx has a stellar reverb and the Mackie does not, that is a much less appealing option to me.
Click to expand...

Well, does it really matter that much for the IEM mix? Whatever reverb you use for your in-ears, it won't be the same as in the mix that the audience hears - that'll be a mess of whatever FOH uses plus the venue's natural reverberation. There's no way you can emulate that.

So why bother? Just put a little of whatever that Mackie thing has, and live happily ever after.

The real question is why do you need reverb in your IEM mix at all. The purpose of monitoring is to hear yourself very clearly, and what reverb will do is put your guitar in the background, masking details. That will sound more "natural" maybe, but it will be less clear. So you'll end up making your guitar louder in order to hear yourself well - why? I personally put reverb on everything EXCEPT myself in my IEMs. And adding any reverb in your FOH sound is dangerous as it cannot be removed by FOH, only added.
 
It's easiest to run Out 1 L/R to the desk dry and apply reverb for your in ears at the desk.

I agree, the Fractal reverb is stunning. In your situation, I would consider it like a W/D/W rig. Run two wet channels to the desk for your in ears and a dry mono channel for FOH.
 
vangrieg said:
Well, does it really matter that much for the IEM mix? Whatever reverb you use for your in-ears, it won't be the same as in the mix that the audience hears - that'll be a mess of whatever FOH uses plus the venue's natural reverberation. There's no way you can emulate that.

So why bother? Just put a little of whatever that Mackie thing has, and live happily ever after.

The real question is why do you need reverb in your IEM mix at all. The purpose of monitoring is to hear yourself very clearly, and what reverb will do is put your guitar in the background, masking details. That will sound more "natural" maybe, but it will be less clear. So you'll end up making your guitar louder in order to hear yourself well - why? I personally put reverb on everything EXCEPT myself in my IEMs. And adding any reverb in your FOH sound is dangerous as it cannot be removed by FOH, only added.
Click to expand...

Why do I need reverb? See my post! I don't like the sound my ear right next to a speaker and that's what we have (in essence) with the Axe Fx.

As far as the Axe reverb vs the Mackie, why do you use an Axe Fx rather than some Zoom plastic junk? The point of the IEMs is to monitor myself and the band and LIKE how it sounds! I didn't spend several thousand dollars and hours tweaking my tone to then filter it through a mediocre reverb.

In any case, thanks for your input... It's always worthwhile to hear other opinions even if they don't agree with your own :)
 
barhrecords said:
It's easiest to run Out 1 L/R to the desk dry and apply reverb for your in ears at the desk.

I agree, the Fractal reverb is stunning. In your situation, I would consider it like a W/D/W rig. Run two wet channels to the desk for your in ears and a dry mono channel for FOH.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I was expecting that would be the answer.

The way I set up our rig, everything goes to two ART S8 splitters so that we "own" the IEM mix completely, and we can then feed the same inputs directly to FOH... But since I will already be sending the "wet" mix to the IEM rig, I could just send output 2 (sans reverb) direct to FOH.
 
unix-guy said:
The point of the IEMs is to monitor myself and the band and LIKE how it sounds!
Click to expand...

Sure. But when I don't like how my preset sounds without a reverb, I go back to the basics and tune it until I like it. A reverb will mask some rough edges, but that's a kludge, IMO. And it has the effect of moving sounds into background which isn't great for monitoring as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think that the Mackie reverb is so disgusting that a little bit of it will spoil the sound. Or is it? Either way, it's the best method. Otherwise, you need to use Output 2 for your monitor mix. I wouldn't advise adding reverb to your main output just to have a better sound in your in ears.
 
I agree about using some kind of reverb with in ears. Close miced IR's don't sound good to me with in ears without some kind of reverb.

If it possible, I would favor the Fractal reverb over the Mackie for two reasons. 1. It's so freakin good. 2. It's in the box so you don't have to bring any extra kit to use it with the caveat that the wiring is more complicated in the W/D/W setup.
 
barhrecords said:
I agree about using some kind of reverb with in ears. Close miced IR's don't sound good to me with in ears without some kind of reverb.

If it possible, I would favor the Fractal reverb over the Mackie for two reasons. 1. It's so freakin good. 2. It's in the box so you don't have to bring any extra kit to use it with the caveat that the wiring is more complicated in the W/D/W setup.
Click to expand...

One other option is that I slap my old G Major 2 in the mixer rack and cable it up as an alternate effects send, and then use that instead of the Axe Fx for reverb.

To be fair, I have not yet tried the Mackie reverb with my rig... I'm going off of the general opinions of the Mackie user community.
 
I use reverb on my guitars in the IEM mix from my axefx. I also run stereo and hard pan left and right my guitar. I pan other instruments as they are around me on the stage inside the stereo field, I'm stage left, and bass stage right, I have him in more in my right ear. I find this helps a lot. We don't use ambient mic's as we get enough bleed from the stage mics. I have them gated, but not really hard, so we get bleed.

Going to be some experimenting on your end to find what works.

Personally I spent a lot of time on drum sounds, more than my guitar, as it just worked as it was.
 
dpeterson said:
I use reverb on my guitars in the IEM mix from my axefx. I also run stereo and hard pan left and right my guitar. I pan other instruments as they are around me on the stage inside the stereo field, I'm stage left, and bass stage right, I have him in more in my right ear. I find this helps a lot. We don't use ambient mic's as we get enough bleed from the stage mics. I have them gated, but not really hard, so we get bleed.

Going to be some experimenting on your end to find what works.

Personally I spent a lot of time on drum sounds, more than my guitar, as it just worked as it was.
Click to expand...

Thanks - that is basically the approach I was planning to take as well.

How and what do you feed to FOH?
 
unix-guy said:
Thanks - that is basically the approach I was planning to take as well.

How and what do you feed to FOH?
Click to expand...

I run output 1 (LR) to the splitter snake, and then I run out 2 to my K12 for some guitar interaction, and push. This way I control the level to each from the axe.

I've been meaning to try the ambient thing but I don't want to confuse the rest of the band any further ;)
 
Maxxblade said:
It adds the room sound and takes the edge off, give t a try.
Click to expand...

I will, but I really can't see how adding a "room" sound will take anything off of my guitar signal that is going directly to the IEM mix. Our entire setup will be direct... so an ambient mic in our rehearsal room will get us talking and via bleed the singer and the sound of the drummer's stick's on his electronic pads.
 
dpeterson said:
I run output 1 (LR) to the splitter snake, and then I run out 2 to my K12 for some guitar interaction, and push. This way I control the level to each from the axe.

I've been meaning to try the ambient thing but I don't want to confuse the rest of the band any further ;)
Click to expand...
Ok, so you are giving reverb to FOH, then?
 
So.can we back up some?
How do you plan to monitor the Axe (signal path, gear)?
Is it just the Axe or do you plan to get the whole band mix?
If so, who controls that mix? Do you run FOH or mix from stage, and which console?
Are you wired or wireless?.
 
We use the X32Rack as a split monitor. Dry signal to the FOH, and the X32 reverbs to my ears. Sounds great!

-PJ
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom