Idea to solve multiple block or channel changes with one button press

[paulmapp8306]

Had an idea Ive not seen discussed (though Ive not gone back years) on how to solve multiple blocks being bypassed, or multiple channels being changed with a single button press. There is the midi loop option using control switches - but were limited on those (and more CSs have been requested). Blocks independent of scenes have also been requested and would give a solution, but his is another 3rd way of achieving this that MAY be less processer intensive than CSs and maybe easier to achieve technically than blocks outside of scenes (guessing but who knows).

How about a link page (wouldnt probably need to be on a present basis not globally - globally may be useful for some - but less useful overall) .

The idea being you'd have a grid - maybe 6 rows and 4 columns (as a for instance) and you can drop blocks into that grid (or have a drop down list for each - just a way of choosing blocks).

Functionally the first block in each row is the MASTER block, and any blocks in the other columns become "SLAVE" blocks. That gives you 6 links with up to 4 blocks being able to be linked in each.

If the master block is bypassed, all the slave blocks ALSO bypass at the same time. If a master channel is changed, all the slave blocks ALSO change their channel. In the channel case, if the master is a 4 channel block but the slave a 2, then the slave toggles. so master 1 = slave 1, master 2 = slave 2, master 3 = slave 1, master 4 = slave 2.

That may be an elegant less CPU intensive way of solving both the multiple channel changing and multiple block changing without taking Control switches.



Thoughts?

 

[Brian Atkinson]

I may not be understanding your goal, but can't you do this already using scenes?

 

[FractalAudio]

Or you could just use Scenes which are expressly designed to do just that.

 

[paulmapp8306]

Or you could just use Scenes which are expressly designed to do just that.

Not if you dont want to change FX block states when you change scenes......

There's a reason Ive never taken to scenes and its just that. If I have my delay on I want it on when I change amp/cab. If its off I want it off etc.

Scenes are great for PLANNED songs, sets etc but useless for free form on the go stuff which is what I do mostly. I need to be able to change my amp AND cab with 1 press without changing the state of any other blocks. Scenes just dont do that.

 

[mr_fender]

You can use the 6 control switches to control other effects blocks independent of scenes. Assign a control switch to your delay block's bypass parameter and set its CS Per Scene state to Last for each scene. It will then keep its current state when changing scenes.

 

[paulmapp8306]

I may not be understanding your goal, but can't you do this already using scenes?

as above. Scenes are too limiting for me. If I start with a fender amp and 1x12 and just reverb. I MAY want to go to a Plexi and 4x12 and still have reverb. BUt I may want to be on the fender - switch in a delay THEN change to a plex i and keep the delay.

Now thats a simple idea that scenes could do.... Id need 4 of them. 1 with fender plus reverb, 1 with fender plus reverb and delay, 1 with plexi and reverb, 1 with plexi and reverb...

Now add compression, chorus, phaser and tremolo..... I could need ANY combination of all 5 FX that need to keep the same state when I change my amp and cab..... Scenes just dont do that. Id need 30 scenes to accomplish it.... which even if possible (ie we HAD 30 scenes) would be a pain to actually have all the switches set up id need..... 5 for the FX IAs, plus 30 for scenes....

 

[paulmapp8306]

You can use the 6 control switches to control other effects blocks independent of scenes. Assign a control switch to your delay block's bypass parameter and set its CS Per Scene state to Last for each scene. It will then keep its current state when changing scenes.

read above.... Its possible (maybe) with ONE effect.., Even then Im not sure that how CS state to last works. As I understand it (may be wrong - Im just reading the manual at present) It keeps the of the block state in that scene only. So if scene 1 and scene 2 have delay blocks bypassed as designed (but different amp and cab channels), and I do the CS trick, I toggle the delay on - and I switch scenes it doesnt keep the same state - it goes to scene 2s state. What happens is if I return to scene 1 then the delay is in the on position as thats how It was when I left the scene. thats not what I want.

Even if it IS how it works its NOT possible with more than 6 effects.... given Im forced to use CS switches for other things - like a volume boost on all outputs with one switch, I dont have 6 available anyway. My current (AFX2) format has compression, delay, reverb, phaser, flanger, Rotory and tremolo and a drive block. I need all of those - in any combination - to be on or off at any time, and for them to keep whatever stat they are in when I switch amps and cabs - that I need to switch together. 6 CS switches arnt enough even if it works as you describe (as I say - thats not how the manual reads but Ive yet to receive the AFX3 so may mis-understand it)

Personally I dont see a point when you WOULDNT like both amp and cab together.... I mean even if your using the same amp with different gain settings. At that point you may just use one cab BUT you could duplicate them i all 4 channels and have both amp and cab switch together and your good. that is my view though and I totally accept there may be a use case for them not to be linked, i just cant see one.


I have EMailed Fractal support and asked for advice or work arounds for my use case - and they dont have one...... This is why Im thinking of other ways that Could maybe be implemented. There are several.

As well as my "link" idea - which is the most flexible, having amp and cab channels linked as options in the effects pre-set part of the FC would work. Having blocks be assignable as part of or excluded from scenes (individually) would work. doubling the amount of control switches would work....well its still needs a midi link cable but at least you can do that and not use most of your CSs just to perform a simple function. Ive seen all those requested and discussed. The Link option is just another way - that has its own benefits over and above whats currently possible as well.

To be honest Im not bothered WHICH way is implemented - which ever is easiest and quickest is fine. But currently its just not easy at all and any work round compromises other functions.

 

[mr_fender]

Use Scenes 1 through 4 to select each amp and cab combination respectively.

Use the above CS technique to control the bypass state of your Comp, Chorus, Phaser, Tremolo, and Reverb blocks and set them all to LAST for the CS per scene setting for scenes 1 through 4.

You will then be able to select any combination of those 5 effects along with any of your 4 amp and cab combos on the fly.

The only limitation with this technique is being able to switch channels on the other effects blocks. That will remained tied to scene changes for the time being.

 

[paulmapp8306]

Use Scenes 1 through 4 to select each amp and cab combination respectively.

Use the above CS technique to control the bypass state of your Comp, Chorus, Phaser, Tremolo, and Reverb blocks and set them all to LAST for the CS per scene setting for scenes 1 through 4.

You will then be able to select any combination of those 5 effects along with any of your 4 amp and cab combos on the fly.

The only limitation with this technique is being able to switch channels on the other effects blocks. That will remained tied to scene changes for the time being.

Couple of things on this. Trust me im trying to find a working solution.

1. is that DEFINATELY how CS technique works? As I say the manual indicates it effectively saves the state of your block to the scene your in - so when you go back to that scene its still in the same state you left it. It doesn't indicate it keeps its state when moving to a different scene (unless you already changed it there of course). If it does its an option.

2. Still dont have enough CS switches to do that... We only have 6. i need 1 for global volume boost across multiple outputs so I have 5. I use 9 FX blocks (Drive, compression, reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, flanger, tremolo and rotary)I need to keep their states on scene switching. I dont see how I can do that with only 6 CS.



The solution Im thinking will work for now, is use CSs for the amp/channel changes. Assign each switch to generate a midi cc, then patch the AFXs midi out to its in. That way the AFX3 will generate the CC needed to channel switch both and send it to itself. Rather convoluted way to do it but..... Then a 5th CS for the global vol and I have 1 spare.... As I say that will work I believe and is OK for now, but its convoluted and again uses all but 1 CS switch just for global stuff. The link solution, along with amp+cab options if the switching options, or blocks outside of scenes are all much better long term solutions.

The perfect solutions would be EITHER the link suggestion as you have total freedom within any scene and can use scenes if you need specific switch states in one go. OR BOTH the amp+cab options for channel changes AND the ability to have blocks be in or out of scenes. That combination achieves the same. Which one is better is probably personal (for me for instance if I had the amp+cab channel switching I would use scenes at all so blocks in and out of them wouldnt change how I work BUT I can see that combo being powerful for others) , which one is more easily achievable from a tech standpoint is anyone's guess outside of Fractal. Id be more than happy with either.

 

[toneseeker911]

Try what mr_fender said, that works.
Else get a midi controller like RJM and you can program it to send whatever midi CC you need for a button press.

 

[GreatGreen]

There are MIDI foot controllers that can do this. RJM comes to mind.

Some RJM controllers let you assign multiple commands to a single switch. You could easily set the bypass states of 11 or 12 blocks (or something like that) to a single switch.

What I'm saying is that even if the functionality isn't in the Axe, it's possible with the right MIDI controller.

 

[paulmapp8306]

I get that. Its more about why the afx/fc can't do this....

Some of the controllers are too big (physically) in one dimension or another but thete are options.

I went for the fc12 just assuming basic things the afx2/mfc could do would be a given.

I'm pretty mad with myself for that assumption. I'm always telling people on synth forums not to assume a new board in one line (roland fantom for instance) won't necessarily do what the earlier ones did plus more, they might loose some stuff.

I've done exactly that...... I guess because its a controller. I shouldn't have assumed....

I do think returning the fc12 and picking one of the others up may well be what I end up doing.