I think my Les Paul is a dud

Robboman said:
I have a Classic (Premium Plus) that I thought was a dud for a long time tonewise, but I think I finally solved the real issue!

I'm not a die hard a Les Paul guy, my only one is this one. Was struggling to like it after multiple pickup and pot swaps. I finally got looking into the bridge, based on reading about upgrades like Faber.

The Classic has a vintage type ABR-1 bridge, not the typical Nashville modern Gibson bridge with metal body inserts.

This is what the ABR-1 looks like out of the guitar:

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If you take the strings, bridge and thumbwheels off, you are left with those two skinny little threaded rods sticking up out of your guitar top. They thread directly into the wood. On my Paul they were loose and wiggly, you could easily wiggle them side to side in the hole with your fingers. So I removed them and used a toothpick to roughly measure the hole depth. My holes went down almost 1/2" deeper into the guitar than these were set to. Just didn't seem right, how could the guitar resonate with loose posts?

Shouldn't those posts bottom out tightly right into the wood?

Of course they should! But Gibson drills the holes too deep on purpose to make assembly fast and easy, that way they can quickly thread the posts only as deep as they need to go so that when the thumbwheel and bridge go on top the post height lines up nicely with the top of the bridge.

The fix was easy.

1. Bought some long stainless steel bolts with the same size threads, but twice as long, with Philips heads.
2. Used a Philips screwdriver to drive them into the guitar down tight. Not so tight that the threads strip, but tight enough that they sink a bit right into the bottom of the post hole and the post ends up solid with no wiggle.
3. Used a Dremel to cut the Philips heads right off at the top.
4. Put the thumbwheels and the bridge on at the correct height so you can see where to mark a spot to cut the posts down again to line up with the top of the bridge nicely.
5. Remove the bridge, Dremel the posts off again, at their ideal final height.
6. Use a different Dremel bit (or files or sandpaper) to polish the top of each post so the top is rounded and smooth.
7. Put the bridge back on. Done.

(edit - before step 3, cover your guitar top and wear safety goggles. Don't risk damage to guitar or eyeballs)

Took me about 40 min including re-stringing. Made a difference!

You could then go further with something like a Faber bridge that locks onto the bridge posts, so the bridge itself can't move around on top of the thumbwheels. Honestly, I think the original design is pretty shitty by comparison.
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Listen to my Les Paul Classic, you can really hear those solid bridge posts :)



Tracked direct with my AX8 a few weeks before my FM3 showed up.
 
Severed said:
I had a nice 2002 LP, got 2nd hand for $800. When I did the trade, sounded great, played great, and no issues in that 5 min tryout..... later after setting it up and getting rdy for a session, found out it suffered from "sticky neck." This is where the finish never cured properly so once you play for about 15 min and it warms up, the back of the neck gets tacky, and totally ruins the playability.

Dam thing.... I used it for a few Eb songs in a cover band for a couple years, did a couple solo work sessions and then sold it on marketplace for $1600 lol.

Anyways, it turns out there's A LOT of really shitty Les Pauls out there, so if you ain't digging it, trade or sell!
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Yeah, mine has the sticky neck too! If it's hot and humid it's almost unplayable. I've taken some light sand paper to it to knock the shine down but it's still tacky. I toyed around on it today and decided I really don't like playing it. It's a one trick pony and I've kept it this long because it's a real pretty guitar. My Charvel HSS kills the Les Paul in tonal varieties.
 
I tried to love this guitar for a few years before finally coming to the realization there was something about it that never felt right now me. Pickup changes, professional setups, etc.

Finally sold it to a guy in NZ who loves it. But damn it was a sexy beast :)
 

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My question to the OP is: have you ever played a LP that you really liked? Maybe LP's aren't your thing.

And pickups do matter! High gain pickups are very different beasts than vintage pickups. Especially when trying to clean them up. If you do like LP's, then I wouldn't give up quite yet. I would throw some vintage output pickups in there (maybe just start with one if money is an issue) and see what you think. I personally like Thornbuckers, but there are a lot of great options out there. But keep the pickups low. Don't get them too close to the strings. Start with them about even with the top of the pickup ring and adjust from there.
 
I thought I loved this guitar until I got a Fractal unit and bought a Charvel w/ HSS. My set up was a '73 Marshall and tube screamer. The guitar's pickups were hot enough that I didn't need the tube screamer to tighten up the bottom, but I'd stomp on it for added gain during solos. In my other guitar at the time, an Ibanez w/ a Duncan Distortion, I always used the tube screamer unless cleaning the tone up with the volume knob. Getting a clean tone from the Les Paul is futile. The Classic 57 plus and Classic 57 neck combo is just too hot. It's a one trick pony.

I prefer a strat style body. It's comfy and I like the scale better. Ideally, I'd sell the Les Paul and my AX8 and buy a Suhr Pete Thorn model. But I really like my Charvel with a single in the neck. I'm sure I'd like the Suhr better, so maybe I should go all in and sell the Charvel as well. I don't need what I don't play. I'm only hanging on the Les Paul at the moment because I can say I have a Fender Strat, a Gibson Les Paul and shredder....the Ibanez or the Charvel.

To your point: I think you're right. LP's aren't my thing. I remember lusting for them when I was real young, watching Def Leppard vid's. But then again, I lusted after the BC Rich Mockingbird because of all the knobs and switches it had...lol.
 
Yeah, sounds like LP's aren't your thing. Life is too short to hang on to a guitar you don't like (just because it a LES PAUL!) if it keeps you from getting something you will really like and play. Good luck! Another style guitar you could consider is a Tele style with body contours. These are almost as comfortable as a Strat style and give you another option that is different. Have you thought about building a guitar yourself (like a Warmoth)? You get exactly what you want for a lot less money than a Suhr. Of course it won't appreciate in value like a Suhr might though. But you could build two for the price of one Suhr. I love my Warmoths. I have a standard Strat, a standard Tele and a fancy P90 Tele with body contours and roasted maple neck (rosewood board). I always get SS frets too. They are all amazing guitars on par with any Custom Shop Fender I have played.
 
Many years ago, when I was younger, I worked in a music store...I soon realized that given a specific instrument or amp, depending on the person that built them there was a huge difference. Our store would get five Marshall amps or Gibson Guitars...only one out of the five would sing. It was the nature of manufacturing/build quality. We dealt with it and we all knew it existed. Today, it is harder in the digital world, even though quality control has improved. One thing is for sure, I believe Fractal Audio has one of the best QA environments possible!
 
Common problem with Gibby LP's. You just never know what you're going to get. I've had very many, and the only one I'm completely satisfied with is an Edwards knockoff.

I love the sound of an LP. They fit my style. But a good LP can feel like finding a Unicorn.

After buying a PRS Silver Sky, I have my eye on a 594. But I am intrigued with the Heritage line.

Or spend a few years trying different LP's to find one that is love.
 
Randall d said:
Yeah, sounds like LP's aren't your thing. Life is too short to hang on to a guitar you don't like (just because it a LES PAUL!) if it keeps you from getting something you will really like and play. Good luck! Another style guitar you could consider is a Tele style with body contours. These are almost as comfortable as a Strat style and give you another option that is different. Have you thought about building a guitar yourself (like a Warmoth)? You get exactly what you want for a lot less money than a Suhr. Of course it won't appreciate in value like a Suhr might though. But you could build two for the price of one Suhr. I love my Warmoths. I have a standard Strat, a standard Tele and a fancy P90 Tele with body contours and roasted maple neck (rosewood board). I always get SS frets too. They are all amazing guitars on par with any Custom Shop Fender I have played.
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I really like this idea. I'm a fan of the Fender headstock. Before I bought this Charvel, which I really love playing, I was searching for a HSS configuration. I didn't really like the real Fender HSS guitars I saw at the shops. I settle on the Charvel but it has no tone knob and the volume knob is down low, there the tone knob should be. I don't know who came up with that idea, but they should be junk punched for it. But the guitar is blast to play and so dynamic in spite of the less than inspiring Dimarzio Super Distortion that came in it. Thank God for the PEQ block or the new input EQ parameter.

So, I like the idea of a build. It would have everything I want and I could care less if the fender style headstock says Fender or Charvel. In fact, I prefer it to not say anything. And I really like the stainless steel frets! I've only had this guitar for 2 years and I'm seeing wear on the frets. I'll bet I can get the build done for less than $1200. I met a guy who buys Squires and rebuilds them and relics them to resale at the local shop near by. The guitars or so comfortable. Like an old T-Shirt. I like the idea of an old beat up guitar that has the goods under the hood.
 
@Randall d Thanks for the rabbit hole you sent me down :oops:

I'm on the Warmouth site and OMG the options! I can't do an old up beater with these selections. There's too many cool things to choose. First, I gotta figure out the wood for the body. Gut reaction was mahogany with a maple top, but most strats were made with ash, I believe.... I'll have to google that.

For the electronics, would it be stupid to go with, say a Thornbucker in the bridge and then something like a '65 single coil in middle and neck? I wanna go from Van Halen to SRV with a sweep of the selector blade. I'm also thinking of only one tone knob and two volume controls. The 2nd dedicated to the neck. But I'm torn because I also want some buttery leads out of the neck, which would simply require a hotter boost or stacked boost pedals for my Axe3 to juice up the low output. My whole thing is clean to mean with the knobs.

I've definitely gone off the reservation with this... I should probably get back to work.
 
Expensive wood is still just wood, it all depends on what they did to the wood and how they put the wood together, Gibson USA built has been horse crap since the 90s, their best guitars are the cheap versions they applied science to, studio Les Paul pleked chambered baked maple, intonation perfect and resonates like a bell. Then a $4000 black beauty off the wall has like 5 dead spots and sounds like some first act fisher price block of disappointment. The traditionals were pretty consistently good, heavy af but they all sound good, old construction style and completely solid.
 
Habuman said:
I had a few Tokai LPs. Great playing and always consistent. However, I only buy Edwards LPs now. Never disappointed with the consistency and quality. Also, the price-point compared to Gibson cannot be beaten IMO.
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I finally, in 2008 or so, found a LP Studio I liked, but it it on consignment now after an encounter with a PRS SE245. Literally the difference was like going from Miller Draft to a good, German Hefeweizen....
 
I used to pull out Gibson 57 pickups until I tried the A3 versions. The A3s with 4 conductor wiring are pretty great for rock and provide much versatility. Getting a treble bleed right can take some time but with some alligator clips and a box of resistors and a couple caps you can dial it in pretty quick. I've managed to get Firebird pickups to taper down to single coil sounds-it took about an hour...Without a doubt I have more Gibson guitars than anything. I think you may be past the point of trying to make the guitar right and probably should try another Les Paul. I also hear that PRS makes a pretty descent single cut...
 
skunc said:
I used to pull out Gibson 57 pickups until I tried the A3 versions. The A3s with 4 conductor wiring are pretty great for rock and provide much versatility. Getting a treble bleed right can take some time but with some alligator clips and a box of resistors and a couple caps you can dial it in pretty quick. I've managed to get Firebird pickups to taper down to single coil sounds-it took about an hour...
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No 50's wiring for you?
 
The most expensive guitar I've ever bought, a beautiful J-Custom RG8550MZ BBE, was a dud with an unbearable dead spot.

I sold it on Reverb and the new user seems to be in love with it.

Do what the @Budda said. These are wise words
 
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