I think I've been trying the wrong amp all this time...

M

MetalGarret

Inspired
For the last 2 years I've been looking for that Mesa Boogie Mark IV (or V) sound with the juicey attack and terrifying rawr. An example of this would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vdra-gxJ0 (@4:20)

I tried the exact settings he used and I got a much MUCH weaker sound that was totally different. It says he's using the Mark IV but I'm not sure which one that is anymore. I thought it was the USA Ld Brt or Brt+. Now it doesn't seem that way. So which of these USA amps is the Mark IV?
 
The USA models sound EXACTLY like my MkIV. Keep at it, the tones are in there. Remember the IR used has a huge impact on the tone as well.
 
kelso1 said:
Amp: all models - Axe-Fx II Wiki
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Oh sweet thank you!

tguitar said:
The USA models sound EXACTLY like my MkIV. Keep at it, the tones are in there. Remember the IR used has a huge impact on the tone as well.
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Yeah I know. I was trying to manually match what the guy had in the video but I guess I was using the wrong amp. I'll give it another go. I like the tone I have now but its just that I'm looking for a softer attack. Mine sounds too pointy sounding right now.
 
HOLY SHIT! Im using the USA Rhythm and I turned the Drive block off and WOW BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE! I got the attack I want!
 
There's two versions of the Boogie Mark IV amps. The earlier ones from 1990 to 1993 (mark IVa) were voiced more like the older Mark IIc+ and Mark III amps with more midrange and a little less gain. In 1993 Boogie revised the amp a bit and revoiced it to have a darker and more modern tone with a bit more gain (grunge was all the rage then). Rhythm 1 (clean) stayed pretty much the same. Rhythm 2 was changed quite a bit and had much more gain and a tighter sound. Rhythm 2 on the early A's sounds more like a Fender tweed amp to me, loose and squishy. It's awesome for blues tones with a Strat. The USA Clean, USA Rhythm, and all the USA Lead models all seems to be based on the later version of the Mark IV (IVb). I find the USA IIC+ model to sound closer to the lead channel of my 1991 Mark IVa.
 
Here's what I don't get though. The drive blocks were the problem. I don't think I was using them right at all. I tried in front of the amp and it diminished the sound really bad. I place it behind the amp and it sounds much better but it hardens the attack way too much. I take it off and I get the soft "squishy" attack an a really warm sounding tone. I see other people using drive blocks with great success though. So my next question is what the actual fuck? Why am I the special one that they act differently for?
 
MetalGarret said:
Here's what I don't get though.I see other people using drive blocks with great success though. So my next question is what the actual fuck? Why am I the special one that they act differently for?
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LOL Myself I don't use drive blocks that much with the amps I use. I find the tone to be better to my ears but if I need more punch the drive block will do the trick, you have to turn those knobs though...
 
MetalGarret said:
Here's what I don't get though. The drive blocks were the problem. I don't think I was using them right at all. I tried in front of the amp and it diminished the sound really bad. I place it behind the amp and it sounds much better but it hardens the attack way too much. I take it off and I get the soft "squishy" attack an a really warm sounding tone. I see other people using drive blocks with great success though. So my next question is what the actual fuck? Why am I the special one that they act differently for?
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I actually have this same problem. I am very used to using an overdrive pedal in front of an amp for a metal style tone. In reality, this does work. Once I switched to the axe fx, it did this correctly for a while, but somewhere within the last FW or 2, the drive blocks changed. Granted, if you are using them the normal way, and just giving that little bluesy solo, some tasty gain or whatever, they sound great. But if you run the level at 10 and drive at 0 in front of an amp like that or a rectifier type amp, you get exactly what you're experiencing. I'm not sure if this is some type of bug or what. I stopped using the Axe's OD pedals for this alone, if I wanted to drive the front of an amp I just use my maxon now. I wish I had a solution, but just wanted to say you're not alone on that.
 
tguitar said:
The USA models sound EXACTLY like my MkIV. Keep at it, the tones are in there. Remember the IR used has a huge impact on the tone as well.
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Also it is easy to get a really shit sound with a mark IV. With a Marshall, wherever you point the knobs it will sound like a Marshall. With a Mark IV, turn a nob from 6 to 7 and you have a totally different amp. Multiply that by the 150 knobs and switches in the thing...

Don't get me wrong, the thing is phenomenal. But it ain't just a "turn it up and rock out" kind of deal :)
 
If you have a drive pedal cranked way up, it limits the dynamics of your guitar. At really extreme settings its almost like it's either on or off with not much in between. There's not much need to slam a high gain amp with a drive pedal all the time (maybe for solos or something). You definitely won't get the nuances of that squish you're looking for.

There aren't any rules, but if you are putting the drive pedal after the amp, you are probably not going to get the tones you expect. That is about as non-traditional as it gets.

Try dialing the amp to get a good crunch sound on its own. Then drop a filter block in front with the type set to "null". Use the output level to adjust the gain. This gives you a clean boost that isn't going to be colored by the flavor of the drive pedal. It should let you get the amp's character but still give you some options in terms of being able to vary the levels of gain for rhythm/leads.

Also, the "cut" parameter may help you get tighter bass, which you could later account for with the eq. Depends what you're going for.
 
MetalGarret said:
Here's what I don't get though. The drive blocks were the problem. I don't think I was using them right at all. I tried in front of the amp and it diminished the sound really bad. I place it behind the amp and it sounds much better but it hardens the attack way too much. I take it off and I get the soft "squishy" attack an a really warm sounding tone. I see other people using drive blocks with great success though. So my next question is what the actual fuck? Why am I the special one that they act differently for?
Click to expand...

If you want the character that the drive block adds without the "squishiness", try pulling the drive parameter in the drive block down to zero. It's amazing how much adjusting the drive level and output level in the drive block affects the tone and feel of the amp. Play around with adjusting those parameters for a while.

Having said that, I've found I don't need drive pedals as much with the current firmware versions.
 
I don't really use drive pedals at all, but I find that the Mark IV is probably the amp that is least in need of a drive pedal in front. There is a lot of gain on-tap, and you can create a clean boost with the input trim/boost switch and have it switchable using scene controllers and modifiers. If you need to shape the pre-eq, the position of the Mark IV's tone stack is basically designed to do that while you shape the overall tone with the graphic EQ.
As a rule of thumb, I think that drive pedals should probably be a last resort for high-gain tones. You should be able to get all of the results you want, and likely for a whole lot less CPU, using only the limitless options in the amp block. Obviously everyone should do what works for them though.
 
Thanks for the input everybody.



This is a demo with my latest attempt. Once I heard it on my other speakers and not my BX5a's I noticed that the highs are a bit much. I might try adjusting the Mark EQ a bit. I'm getting closer though! (Also I hope the track isn't too boomy for anyone. I'm still trying to get a good level on that too).

And yeah it's good to know that I'm not alone on the drive block issue. I'm not gonna use them for a while until I figure out how to get what I want out of them.
 
Hi,

I am not a Mesa Guy but your clip sounds very authentic to me ! I like the guitar sound for this kind of music, nice playing btw. Its not sounding boomy or harsh on my monitors, the synths i a bit too loud for my taste but i really like the guitars and the drums.
Please tell me what samples (Steven Slate, Superior Drummer etc.)you use for the drums. thanks !
 
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