I keep trying to go back ...

m lebofsky

m lebofsky

Experienced
So I spent a few hours today using the 4 cable method with my XTC classic stack and a new mini-gizmo midi switcher (allows my all-acess to not only control the Axe , but change channels on the XTC.). Works like a charm. However, now that I'm used to the verve 12ma's (their wide dispersion) combined with the flexibility of the Axe, I'm done trying to go back. I even have beam blockers on the bogner cabs. Naaaa .......
 
Beam Blockers in your Bogner cabs? I'd take them out... your cabs will sound better (and the beam blockers don't really do much to improve dispersion).
 
Dpoirier said:
Beam Blockers in your Bogner cabs? I'd take them out... your cabs will sound better (and the beam blockers don't really do much to improve dispersion).
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Had them in and out a few times. Either way, the 12ma's dispersion wins.
 
m lebofsky said:
Dpoirier said:
Beam Blockers in your Bogner cabs? I'd take them out... your cabs will sound better (and the beam blockers don't really do much to improve dispersion).
Click to expand...
Had them in and out a few times. Either way, the 12ma's dispersion wins.
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Dispersion aside...how close to amp in the room do they get to your Bogner cabs? What IR's are you using? And what style of music are you playing?

I was listening to the stereo in my work truck (has stock coax speakers) and I noticed that even outside the truck the music stayed basically the same!!! I like that idea if it can apply that well to guitar. I use Jay's modifiers on my current cabs...and it definitely helps (quite a bit)...but it isn't as good (directivity wise) as the coax in my truck...so I've been thinking about the passive Verve cabs lately.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!!!
 
I can get within 90% of the bogner oversized 2x12 cabs (I have an open back and a closed back).
No, its not the same. But I don't need it to be identical. I play live and 90% is more than good enough.
Come on - once the drums startup and 100+ people are milling about the bar, a consistant 90%, in stereo, easily repeatable, and ultimately flexible sound wins.

The thing is, depending on where you are standing in relationship to the bogner cabs (straight on, 30 deg off, 45 deg off, etc), the sound changes considerably.

With the verve 12ma's, I can get a more consistant sound farther off center (and in stereo !!!). Plus the 12ma's are obviously much smaller than the real cabs so the every weekend gigs are less of a choore. I am waiting for the red wirez IRs to be made with the earthworks mic (mid Oct), and then I'll be purchasing and trying them out.

Like I said in the original post, I keep trying to go back, but the positives of the Axe/Verves far outweigh the need to carry around and maintain a tube head and cabs.
In fact, we often play places that have great monitors and FOH so all I bring is my 4U rack with Furman/Axe/X2 wireless. I tell the sound guy I need 2 XLRs panned hard L and R and probabbly padded down since the Axe's signal is pretty hot. I usually test his hard L/R panning and 50% of the time I have to ask him/her to recheck the L/R.

YMMV, IMHO, etc, etc.
 
m lebofsky said:
I can get within 90% of the bogner oversized 2x12 cabs (I have an open back and a closed back).
No, its not the same. But I don't need it to be identical. I play live and 90% is more than good enough.
Come on - once the drums startup and 100+ people are milling about the bar, a consistant 90%, in stereo, easily repeatable, and ultimately flexible sound wins.

The thing is, depending on where you are standing in relationship to the bogner cabs (straight on, 30 deg off, 45 deg off, etc), the sound changes considerably.

With the verve 12ma's, I can get a more consistant sound farther off center (and in stereo !!!). Plus the 12ma's are obviously much smaller than the real cabs so the every weekend gigs are less of a choore. I am waiting for the red wirez IRs to be made with the earthworks mic (mid Oct), and then I'll be purchasing and trying them out.

Like I said in the original post, I keep trying to go back, but the positives of the Axe/Verves far outweigh the need to carry around and maintain a tube head and cabs.
In fact, we often play places that have great monitors and FOH so all I bring is my 4U rack with Furman/Axe/X2 wireless. I tell the sound guy I need 2 XLRs panned hard L and R and probabbly padded down since the Axe's signal is pretty hot. I usually test his hard L/R panning and 50% of the time I have to ask him/her to recheck the L/R.

YMMV, IMHO, etc, etc.
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Cool thanks!

Currently I don't play out...and probably won't for at least a few years or more. If you were in my situation, would the 90% still out weigh the real cabs?
 
-<MACHINE>- said:
[quote="m lebofsky":37g2q92r]My opinion - If you don't play out, don't worry about how to spend more $$ on speakers ....
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:x

Please, money is not an issue...[/quote:37g2q92r]

Excuuuuuuuse me ....
If money is no object, I would PM Jay and have him design/develop something for you personally.
 
m lebofsky said:
[quote="-<MACHINE>-":334tnjv4][quote="m lebofsky":334tnjv4]My opinion - If you don't play out, don't worry about how to spend more $$ on speakers ....
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:x

Please, money is not an issue...[/quote:334tnjv4]

Excuuuuuuuse me ....
If money is no object, I would PM Jay and have him design/develop something for you personally.[/quote:334tnjv4]

WTF...is this necessary?

You wasted enough time to type out four paragraphs and two pointless follow ups yet can't give a simple yes or no to the actual question :lol:

NEVER MIND :roll:
 
I play out in a cover band most every weekend (pop punk - Think Dreen Day, Social D, Ramones, Clash, Sex Pistols, Rancid, Op Ivy, Rev Horton Heat, Me 1st and the Gimme Gimmes, Billy Idol, etc, etc). Because I play out, size, maintainability, flexibility and sound coverage count. The 12MAs fit the bill well. They are not perfect, but they are very good (good enough that I won't be tempted by the Atomic units coming out soon). For what our band does, I need the left to right coverage since I'm constantly moving fully around the stage.

For the occasional Blues jam I grab a small 10" or 12" combo (Dr Z, Bad Cat, Bogner, Gibson, Fender, etc). It's nice to get back to the basics every now and then. Quick, easy, no frills and they each have their own amazing charm. Different tool for a different type of gig.

If I were playing at home and not playing out, and I had what you already have, I would not be that concerned with more speakers. There is enough depth in the axe to get "almost" any sound you want from what you already have. YMMV. Personal opinion only.

If I had unlimited resources, I would PM Jay and ask him about designing a money is no object speaker system. Or go ahead and buy a pair of 12ma's, or the upcoming Atomic things. You can always sell them on craigslist/ebay. Life is short, sound as good as you can.

I think I answered your question ?
 
m lebofsky said:
I think I answered your question ?
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Kinda...but not really.

I don't think I was specific enough originally...

I like the tone of the speakers I have, but they still have a directional issue that is noticeable enough to bother me. That part I'm pretty sure would be acceptable with the Verve's per what you and others have said plus the realization I had with the car stereo speakers.

Back to the tone...it is possible to play in different genres with what I have. But this isn't optimal. I would like to have different speakers for different tones...yet it isn't just about getting "more speakers".

So the main thing I wanted to know is if the 90% tone of the Verve's would be good enough for at home playing as opposed to the Bogner cabs you use. IOW if you had to pick only one of these two speaker systems for at home...which one would it be?

Please don't take this as I'm trying to have you make up my mind for me...I just want to know if they'd be good enough for someone to replace the real thing...in an enviro that you'd be able to pick apart the tone. Your answer isn't going to make me go out and buy the Verve's...or not. It will help in considering what to do though.

As far as money not being an issue :lol: I never said I could afford Jay's designs!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

And buying just to find out really is a hassle for me if it doesn't work...I'd rather gather as much data first. That has worked the best for me in the past.

If you feel you're done with this subject...please disregard it any further. I'm not trying to irritate you...
 
Yes, IMHO, the 90% tone of the Verve's/built in IRs is good enough for at home playing as opposed to the Bogner cabs.

However, I am about to sit down (in the house) and play some blues. A nice Sunday evening, turn the lights down, close the door and crank up some BB King for 30 minutes. I'm reaching for my 8" Dr Z, mini-Z, not the Bogner stack, not the Axe/verves, etc ...
 
m lebofsky said:
Yes, IMHO, the 90% tone of the Verve's/built in IRs is good enough for at home playing as opposed to the Bogner cabs.

However, I am about to sit down (in the house) and play some blues. A nice Sunday evening, turn the lights down, close the door and crank up some BB King for 30 minutes. I'm reaching for my 8" Dr Z, mini-Z, not the Bogner stack, not the Axe/verves, etc ...
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Cool thanks...but which ONE would you choose...if you HAD to choose?

Not including the 10"/12" combos, Dr. Z etc.
 
The Verves are a fairly blank slate which you can apply IRs.
The "others" I mention each have their own hardcoded color/fingerprint (that obviously gets you 100% there - but no where else).

If you could only choose one, then the Verves will allow you to apply IRs and get 90% wherever you want to go (some would say 100%, some would say 95%, etc, etc).

The reason this post is going back and forth so much is its a matter of opinion (and ears) as to how close you can get to the real thing with the FRFR/IR concept. I beleive the general consensus is 90%-100% once you get into the 12ma and beyond range. Also, if your not A/Bing the real vs the FRFR/IRs in a critical listening position/environment, many of us would not be able to tell the diff. Same with once the drums kick-in.
 
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