I have owned the Axe Fx 2 XL+ for a year, and I am still not satisfied with the tone.

rich2k4 said:
I play through JBL 305's.
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I think we've found your issue.

I'm not knocking the speakers themselves. They're great, actually. I personally use a pair of 308's and think they're incredible. They sit in a great space between clinical studio monitors that reveal everything and sweet sounding stereo speakers that make music sound good.

I wouldn't use them as my main guitar speakers though, even with good cabinet emulation. They're studio monitors. They're just not going to give you a big satisfying amp-in the room sound like a cab will.
 
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yek said:
You're comparing a mic'd tone (Axe-Fx with cab sim > studio monitors) to an amp-in-the-room.
If you want that, connect the Axe-Fx to a power amp and guitar cabinet.
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HarrySound said:
Because it's the best amp in the world I would just load up the Divided by 13 FTR37 LO model , turn the treble up to 7 and leave everything eles stock. Then add the Divided by 13 cabinet. Add a bunch of room reverb and turn up loud. The final piece of the puzzle is the added room modes.
I swear I've had those kinds of tones...
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Try these ^^ - real cab + DIV/13 amp sim + strat = John Mayer tone bliss....
I have come close as well...
I would also agree with others that you're not him nor do you have his guitar/pickups. I still believe the player is the most important piece of the tonal chain. Happy tweaking !
 
Sound is all about moving air. You're comparing a pair of 5" inch horn loaded speakers in a tiny ported box to an open back, dual 12", 100 watt tube amplifier.
There's not a modeling device on earth that can bridge that gap.
 
hmm, i don't know. Recording wise, the unit is great, and if I was recording a track, then yeah I'd use the axe fx. But just me by myself practicing, to me, doing that through an actual guitar amp always seems to sound better to me.

Even when I plug in to my Roland Cube 30, it sounds thicker, and fatter, and less "hi fi" and sterile if that makes sense. And this is at low volumes we are talking about.

If I play the axe fx side by side with the Roland Cube, the cube sounds more present, fatter, etc.

I think the problem is that I just don't like the sound of miced up guitar tone coming back at me while I am playing, which is what the axe excels at.

I didn't get the axe fx for recording, more than I got it to be able to practice quietly in my apartment without the neighbors knocking on the walls.

People have mentioned to play louder, but I can't. Headphones don't sound any better.

JCBitB said:
These are exactly the tones and styles I go for, and I have achieved them blissfully since the Ultra. I currently own a blackface bandmaster, and I sold a blackface dual showman too, so plenty of experience with tube amps, and I get the same tones with the axe fx with minimal effort. Then again, I got similar tones and style out of my friends tiny terror and v30 loaded cab too, so I'm used to making round pegs fit square holes

I'd offer help, but you didn't actually ask for any. Seems like you've convinced yourself that the axe won't work, so all I'll say is that maybe menu diving isn't for you, so go buy something that DOES work for you.

All I'll add to that, is go listen to other clips, especially when quantum just rolled out and people were going nuts over the plexi's. You can't tell me that they aren't usable tones. Somewhere on this forum is a clip of a guy nailing your dream tone, so the box isn't the problem. Either renew your faith in its capability, or admit you're not compatible with a gui in music making, sell it and move on.

The biggest gift the axe ever gave me, is the realization that every time I have a problem with its tone, I end up playing tube rigs for an hour and learn the hard and humbling way that it's my hands that are falling short
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I'm curious about your advice for achieving these tones.


here is a video I found on youtube, with a guy using the axe to get a Mayerish tone with the Two Rock model. When I try to use it, I get nowhere near it. Sounds thin and sterile.

 
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rich2k4 said:
hmm, i don't know. Recording wise, the unit is great, and if I was recording a track, then yeah I'd use the axe fx. But just me by myself practicing, to me, doing that through an actual guitar amp always seems to sound better to me.

Even when I plug in to my Roland Cube 30, it sounds thicker, and fatter, and less "hi fi" and sterile if that makes sense. And this is at low volumes we are talking about.

If I play the axe fx side by side with the Roland Cube, the cube sounds more present, fatter, etc.

I think the problem is that I just don't like the sound of miced up guitar tone coming back at me while I am playing, which is what the axe excels at.

I didn't get the axe fx for recording, more than I got it to be able to practice quietly in my apartment without the neighbors knocking on the walls.

People have mentioned to play louder, but I can't. Headphones don't sound any better.



I'm curious about your advice for achieving these tones.


here is a video I found on youtube, with a guy using the axe to get a Mayerish tone with the Two Rock model. When I try to use it, I get nowhere near it. Sounds thin and sterile.

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You need to search for the right IR then. If you can't do volume - and that's simply a non-negotiable part of certain guitar tones - then you need the right EQ that the right IR provides.
 
Roland Cube 30: 10 inch speaker, no horn, optimized for guitar
JBL 305: 5 inch speaker, 1 inch horn, optimized for playing audio from your computer.

I think everyone would agree with you, playing through an actual guitar amp with a 10", 12" or 15" speaker vs. Axe FX > JBL 305 monitors, the guitar amp will always sound better. Try using the Axe FX through either a FRFR / powered PA speaker that is similar in size to your guitar amp or through an actual guitar cabinet with a quality power amp. Even at lower volumes, it will sound far better when you're just noodling In the apartment.

Not to get too technical but horn loaded speakers are always "controversial" in pro audio circles. In guitar cabinets, horns tend to accentuate and (even passively because they're so efficient) amplify frequencies that are not exactly natural or complimentary to the guitar. Hence, no one makes a horn loaded, dedicated guitar cabinet. Case in point; the frequency response of your 305's extend up to 24 kHz. Your Cube amp probably starts tapering off greatly somewhere around 14-16 kHz. That thin tone you're hearing in the 305's is probably at least partly caused by the efficiency of the 1" horn compared to the output capacity of the 5" speaker. So, we're back to moving air...
 
I've been chasing some Mayer-inspired tones lately. Volume definitely helps with the expressiveness. When it's loud I can get the notes to catch; it's easier to couple the speaker output with the guitar. It took me a while to land on an ODS-based base tone that I liked. Q8.02 made it a whole lot easier to find a range of ODS-inspired tones that worked for me.

Here's what I ended up with: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/a-departure-from-my-normal.126096/

That works with my 'bucker-equipped PRSi and my single-coil Strat (I have hotter, fatter Strat pickups). And I played it with my singer's Mayer Strat and it sounded pretty dang glorious.

Try that?

I'm impressed you've hung in for 2 years if you're unhappy.
 
Hopefully everyone realizes the folly of talking about Mayer's "amp in room" tone when nearly all of us are listening to a recorded video clip through near field PC speakers ??

Unless you were there, you don't know what it really sounds like. You only know what it sounded like as captured from the location of the microphone, filtered through the frequency response of the microphone, and then reproduced through whatever means of monitoring the end user is listening with.

That is what is essentially pointless with "amp in room", you can't capture it, or reproduce it, so short of having a bunch of people come over and listen to you play, its not a very tangible sound....

For what its worth, FRFR can also have a very "in the room" tone, its not limited purely to open back guitar cabs. Yes, those do radiate out the sound nicely, but so do most FRFR speakers. My CLR's have an amazing spread (with a flat response even off-axis) and with two of them, I absolutely having sound bouncing off every wall of my 12x14 sized music room, just as my 1x12 open back DRRI sounded.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Hopefully everyone realizes the folly of talking about Mayer's "amp in room" tone when nearly all of us are listening to a recorded video clip through near field PC speakers ??
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Technically, if you are listening to a mic'd amp on a clip through monitors, you should be able to exactly mimic the tone you hear when you play the Axe through those same monitors....whatever the volume.

Also, since you've got a clip of isolated guitar you realize that you've got a perfect sample for tone matching, right?

As to just generally sounding right, I've found that you've got to move some air to get the right feel. Anything played at apartment/bedroom levels is going to lack something that you just can't compensate for with EQ. On top of that, you need to dial it in at those volumes, too. You can't just take a preset you've put together at low volumes, play it louder and expect it to sound perfect.

Finally, you're probably not using the right IR's.
 
Three things:

First; the JBL 305 is a cheap speaker. Good value, but no way is it ever going to sound like a cranked Twin cabinet. My JBL LSR6332's sound great with the Axe, but still not like a guitar cab based on the beamwidth alone. My cheap JBL LSR 2328P monitors sounded like shit no matter what. You get what you pay for, and FRFR is not a guitar cab.

Second; that Youtube recording sounds terrible. No telling what that amp sounds like in person based on this recording.

Third; if it isn't working for you, then it isn't working for you. If it's been a year, it might be time to look at other options. Try the Axe with a power amp and guitar cab. Or use a guitar amp. You have more patience than me. I would have given up much sooner. Fortunately for me, the Axe sounds amazing to me and works as well or better for me than any other option.
 
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rich2k4 said:
I will say that the unit in a recording sounds great, but in terms of just general bedroom practice, there has always been something missing.

I play through JBL 305's. The type of music I play is all over the place, but usually defaults to John Mayer/SRV style blues.

I can never get that bell like tone that is possible with a good fender tube amp in the same room as you.

I have been on the hunt to be able to get srv/john mayer style tones at bedroom/apartment levels.

Sometimes even recorded, the unit doesn't come near some of the videos I see of people playing a tube amp in the room.

take this video for example. John Mayer playing a tele through a dual professional. Even through the recording you can tell that the tone is bell like and that it sounds great in the room.



All I can get through the axe fx is a "hi fi" type of tone, if that makes any sense. There is just something missing. No "omph" like you can hear through that video.
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Yeah, it's been mentioned, but play through a power amp and cab. I had the same issue with FRFR monitors. I also have those JBL 305's and it doesnt sound nearly the same as playing through my QSC PLD 4.2 and marshall cab with v30s and g12t-75s. You seriously have to run it through a real cabinet with guitar speakers to get that tone. A lot of people are sold on FRFR, I am not. I like that 4x12 cab tone and the Axe is so incredibly convincing and inspiring with its models. At this point with the current firmware, I dont know how they can make serious improvments with the Axe because it's nearly perfect. People who complain are probaly having issues with operator error, and I'm saying that as someone who still owns tube amps and am a tone junkie. I was unsatisfied with the Axe at first, but the upgrades in firmware have changed everything. The only thing I really have to change is the dynamic presence in the "dynamics" tab of the amp to bring down this cripsiness in my poweramp and everything sounds big and fat the way I want it to. Some gear may not have what you're looking for, but after 3 years with the axe and tube amps to compare it to, I cant imagine it not getting the tone you need with some tweaking.
 
rich2k4 said:
hmm, i don't know. Recording wise, the unit is great, and if I was recording a track, then yeah I'd use the axe fx. But just me by myself practicing, to me, doing that through an actual guitar amp always seems to sound better to me.

Even when I plug in to my Roland Cube 30, it sounds thicker, and fatter, and less "hi fi" and sterile if that makes sense. And this is at low volumes we are talking about.

If I play the axe fx side by side with the Roland Cube, the cube sounds more present, fatter, etc.

I think the problem is that I just don't like the sound of miced up guitar tone coming back at me while I am playing, which is what the axe excels at.

I didn't get the axe fx for recording, more than I got it to be able to practice quietly in my apartment without the neighbors knocking on the walls.

People have mentioned to play louder, but I can't. Headphones don't sound any better.



I'm curious about your advice for achieving these tones.


here is a video I found on youtube, with a guy using the axe to get a Mayerish tone with the Two Rock model. When I try to use it, I get nowhere near it. Sounds thin and sterile.

Click to expand...


One thing in common between the two recordings you posted is that they are both poorly recorded. Have you tried boosting the base knob and using a spring reverb before the amp and a room reverb after the amp?
Also, if you post a video or a recording of you playing it will make this much easier to fix. There is nothing we can do but speculate if we dont know where you are currently!
 
There is nothing wrong with the jbl 305's mind you. They simply aren't going to produce the sound of a larger/louder speaker, ala "amp in room" however, they can do a great job reproducing a recorded, ala mic'd guitar tone.

Play back a recorded track of SRV and it sounds like a great recording of a very loud amp. You don't need cranked volume to get the effect of SRV's tone. He needed it that loud to get the tone of course, but the great thing with the Axe is it models the sound of a cranked amp, but can do so at any volume level.

Technically the curve of minimum human auditory perception aka FM, Fletcher-Munson does play a small part, but far less than people often think, given the tonal range of guitar isn't in the extremes of the curve.

The only real issue with a near field is that it's a near field. It's meant to be Listened to at close range, and by design isn't supposed to fill the room with sound. You don't want that for accuracy judging a mix.

A guitar cab isn't meant to be 3 feet from yours ears. It's got more spread, fills the room, and is generally a lot louder.

A mid-field monitor or typical FRFR monitor acts like a guitar cab but with a wider response range and less beaming. You can roll off the highs and get a very similar in the room feel from a FRFR as you can a guitar cab, up to the point where a single 1x12 FRFR isn't going to match a 4x12. Simply isn't moving the same air, but there isn't anything magical from a guitar cab.

If somebody made a 4x12 CLR, it would thump you in the chest like any other 4x12. Simply isn't any practical reason to make one though.

The overall lack of understanding from guitarist with regards to direct vs recorded tones isn't new to modelers though. It's been an issue ever since the first engineer mic'd a cab and the guitarist complained it sounded different than what he heard playing the track.

The axe produces the sound of a close mic'd guitar cab, unless you play through a physical cab. You can not record the in the room sound, no matter how many far field, rear Ir's etc you use any more than you can record the real in the room tone of a real amp, no matter how many mics

Why this has all been discussed literally 100k times on Internet forums I honestly don't understand. It's not a new issue, it's not axe specific, and it's simply never going to change unless we break the laws of psychoacoustic physics.
 
StickMan said:
Technically, if you are listening to a mic'd amp on a clip through monitors, you should be able to exactly mimic the tone you hear when you play the Axe through those same monitors....whatever the volume.
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If we're talking about audio originally played through monitors but recorded using an iPhone, then no. Even a direct recording of the same modeler may yield different tonal results depending on your guitar and pickups unless you employ some type of EQ matching.
 
lqdsnddist said:
The only real issue with a near field is that it's a near field. It's meant to be Listened to at close range, and by design isn't supposed to fill the room with sound. You don't want that for accuracy judging a mix.
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Nearfields are in myriad pro studios across the country and are perfectly acceptable for judging the accuracy of a mix. Since they're listened to in close proximity, they have the benefit of minimizing the effects of poor room acoustics.
 
rich2k4 said:
hmm, i don't know. Recording wise, the unit is great, and if I was recording a track, then yeah I'd use the axe fx. But just me by myself practicing, to me, doing that through an actual guitar amp always seems to sound better to me.

Even when I plug in to my Roland Cube 30, it sounds thicker, and fatter, and less "hi fi" and sterile if that makes sense. And this is at low volumes we are talking about.

If I play the axe fx side by side with the Roland Cube, the cube sounds more present, fatter, etc.

I think the problem is that I just don't like the sound of miced up guitar tone coming back at me while I am playing, which is what the axe excels at.

I didn't get the axe fx for recording, more than I got it to be able to practice quietly in my apartment without the neighbors knocking on the walls.

People have mentioned to play louder, but I can't. Headphones don't sound any better.



I'm curious about your advice for achieving these tones.


here is a video I found on youtube, with a guy using the axe to get a Mayerish tone with the Two Rock model. When I try to use it, I get nowhere near it. Sounds thin and sterile.

Click to expand...


It seems to me you want to find an ir that's captured with a mobile phone microphone :)

Seriously though it sounds like you just need a 1x12 cab or something.
 
Personally, my understanding of how to get good tone and how to pick out the right gear for the job became a lot easier once I realized the following:

  • If you were to play music with the best guitar tone you've ever heard through a normal stereo system at your house, it would sound great as you'd expect.
  • If you were then able to magically plug a guitar cable into that same stereo system and the other end into your favorite guitar, and in doing so you were able to achieve a guitar tone *identical* to the recorded tone you just heard, it would sound and feel small, weak, and unsatisfying through the stereo system.

I'm not sure why this happens, but it does. And it's helped me tremendously in my understanding of guitar tone, both solo and in the context of a band or song.
 
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