I had a Sobering Experience Last Night

This is a most basic rule...ya gotta tweak at gig volume, And optimally with the guys you Are playing with.

This.

I would also keep in mind you don't want to occupy the same sonic territory as the other guitarist. The key to being a band is that you have your own EQ space. The only way to do that is to play with the other guitarist, and find that range in which you are distinct.
 
This.

I would also keep in mind you don't want to occupy the same sonic territory as the other guitarist. The key to being a band is that you have your own EQ space. The only way to do that is to play with the other guitarist, and find that range in which you are distinct.

^^^^^^This!!!

A band is about the sound of THE BAND. It isn't about the sound of your guitar or any other single instrument, but how all the instruments sound together. Good bands work together to dial a sound that hits the music home. EQ and tone shaping is a big part of it, but so is what you play. Arranging the parts so instruments aren't stepping all over each other is just as important as proper EQ and tone. If the other players weren't interested in working with you to dial a sound for the band then it probably isn't a band you want to play with anyway.
 
There really is a difference between how you should set your tone controls and playing to music at home.
True statement, I learned it in front of a crowded club in the 80's. Fortunately we were a teen band and the audience was clueless. I am sure you will get it sorted and kick that other dude off stage left.
 
Others have said what I came here to say.

If you have a mid heavy guitarist alongside you in my experience it becomes mid and volume wars to be heard, what you certainly shouldn't do is scoop you'll be lost.

Few years since I have played with another guitarist, but I always used to sit down, maybe get to rehearsals a bit earlier with them and agree/play together to balance tone settings - for example one guitar has a lot of treble, the other has a lot of mids - might sound awful on it's own but paired together it works.

Listen to isolated tracks of Malcolm and Angus Young for example, they give each other sonic space.

If this guy doesn't do this, and doesn't want to do this - he's basically saying he wants to be the only guitarist IMHO
 
Exactly, doesn’t matter what either one of you are playing through.. if his mids were scooped & yours were dimed you’d have buried him. In a full mix context for guitars mids is everything, period, end of story.

Exactly this.

And guess what: those are JP's settings, but he's the only guitarist in the band.

Jordan Rudess uses a totally different frequency spectrum, and lately has been playing less and less.

But the Mark series is a really mid oriented amp, so try to raise the mid in the V shape
 
This has been my experience too... volume is also a big factor.

I have never heard an amp modeler>PA monitor that could keep up with a loud tube or SS amp and guitar cabinet. If I'm playing with another guitarist that's using a traditional rig and want to use a modeler I will run it through a combo amp's return for stage monitoring while either micing a speaker, sending a direct out from the modeler to the FOH or both together.
 
Last night I tried out for a pretty popular band here in Phoenix. I always thought my tone was kick ass playing at home to records and just noodling. I own and play strictly EBMM Majesty guitars 6 and 7 string using the JP2C modeled in the Axe-Fx III through 2 Xitone Cabs. When I got to the tryout I was plugged into the massive PA they had at the rehearsal space still thought it sounded great. Then the other guitar player plugged into his Bogner and proceeded to stomp all over my sound. It was full and thick where mine was scooped and thin. Now here is the weird part I walked over to the other guitar players amp and noticed he had his mids dimed. It sounded incredible. The settings I used for the JP2C were exactly the same ones JP uses himself and I think his tone is stellar. My question is there a difference between how you set your tone controls live vs. playing at home? I understand the Fletcher Munson curve and all that and I compensate for that already. Just wondering if maybe the tone controls and EQ don't react the way they do on the real amp?
When you say you set the controls the exact same way JP does, what precisely were your settings?

In particular, what were the dB settings on the 5 band graphic eq? If you set these visually by setting the relative distances of the virtual pots to match that of photos of JPs amp that could be the issue. The taper on the real JP2C is very logarithmic, and you get almost no change until you get to the ends of the pots then a rapid change in sound over a short distance. The Axe eq is linear.

On the mark amps, the amp controls set the feel and character of the distortion and the eq shapes the overall sound. My understanding is that the amp controls in the Axe are spot on for the JP2C (and probably all the amps), but again the taper is different for the graphic eq. So just diming the amp mid control won’t do what you want.

I have found the JP2C to have loads of bass and mids. I often set the mids to no more than 2 for rhythm and 4 for leads. The 750hz I set at -5 for rhythm and -4 for leads. From left to right I set the eq controls at 3, 2, -5, 2, 1.8. I do these same settings for all the mark series and Triaxis as after lots of experimenting these sound the best to me, even with lots of different cabs. They seem to accord pretty well with JPs claimed settings (at least for the mids) which can be found in the video description text under this video:



Also what IR were you using? I keep coming back to the ML USA TRAD in Mikko’s Greatest Hits Pack. Amazing. YA Recto ST which come with the Axe are also great (mixing SM7, 421 and 121 cabs sound great at equal mix - try the DRK version).

Disclaimer - I am a bedroom player and haven’t tried this live but I think the logic at least holds up.
 
I have never heard an amp modeler>PA monitor that could keep up with a loud tube or SS amp and guitar cabinet. If I'm playing with another guitarist that's using a traditional rig and want to use a modeler I will run it through a combo amp's return for stage monitoring while either micing a speaker, sending a direct out from the modeler to the FOH or both together.
I used to run a pair of QSC KW 152’s & I had a pair of 153’s (but those were a little big to lug around) that would have absolutely zero problem keeping up and in the case of the 153’s burying a 4x12. Even the 152’s would once you stepped outside the line of fire of the laser beam of sound a 4x12 cab produces.. they aren’t made for wide sound dispersion like a PA speaker. That’s why I’ve personally always sworn by high quality Active PA Speakers. They are designed for accurate sound reproduction with a wide image, so they are going to fill the room in the best most accurate way over the most area. Not sure if these made for modeling FRFR boxes do that.
 
Last night I tried out for a pretty popular band here in Phoenix. I always thought my tone was kick ass playing at home to records and just noodling. I own and play strictly EBMM Majesty guitars 6 and 7 string using the JP2C modeled in the Axe-Fx III through 2 Xitone Cabs. When I got to the tryout I was plugged into the massive PA they had at the rehearsal space still thought it sounded great. Then the other guitar player plugged into his Bogner and proceeded to stomp all over my sound. It was full and thick where mine was scooped and thin. Now here is the weird part I walked over to the other guitar players amp and noticed he had his mids dimed. It sounded incredible. The settings I used for the JP2C were exactly the same ones JP uses himself and I think his tone is stellar. My question is there a difference between how you set your tone controls live vs. playing at home? I understand the Fletcher Munson curve and all that and I compensate for that already. Just wondering if maybe the tone controls and EQ don't react the way they do on the real amp?
Also, were you monitoring through the PA only or with your cabs as well? Was the other guitarist miced up through the PA?
 
Lots of good intel here, don’t forget everyones tone sucked at some point.very few amps if any have great tone at any setting. It takes time to dial in. It helps to record your sound live setting. Focus on fitting in the sound. If 2 guitars are chucking out, likely that’s what u will hear. Adjust your playing to add to the chunk. FX's adjusted much lower
 
I think a good way to approach this situation is before cutting in to a full song. Ask for a quick run through of an intro or chorus/verse to let them know you want to make sure you fit in the mix. The more pro they are, the more they are likely to appreciate it and avoids you being focused on being buried instead of your performance.

Obviously, this is a little harder in a situation where you are changing your sound for a variety of songs.
 
Thanks for all the info and advice everyone I appreciate it. I will do as some of you have advised. Maybe I will buy me a power amp and see what it sounds like through a real guitar cab as well.
I'd send separate EQ to your floor monitors vs. PA. The sound guy is probably pulling his mids so they don't stomp all over the mix.
 
Remember also that FRFR and a real cab will sound very different. If you want to hear what I mean, get a real cab and a good power amp. Turn off cab simulations and run the AxeFX this way. You will hear it sounds very much like a real amp in the room.
 
When you say you set the controls the exact same way JP does, what precisely were your settings?

In particular, what were the dB settings on the 5 band graphic eq? If you set these visually by setting the relative distances of the virtual pots to match that of photos of JPs amp that could be the issue. The taper on the real JP2C is very logarithmic, and you get almost no change until you get to the ends of the pots then a rapid change in sound over a short distance. The Axe eq is linear.

On the mark amps, the amp controls set the feel and character of the distortion and the eq shapes the overall sound. My understanding is that the amp controls in the Axe are spot on for the JP2C (and probably all the amps), but again the taper is different for the graphic eq. So just diming the amp mid control won’t do what you want.

I have found the JP2C to have loads of bass and mids. I often set the mids to no more than 2 for rhythm and 4 for leads. The 750hz I set at -5 for rhythm and -4 for leads. From left to right I set the eq controls at 3, 2, -5, 2, 1.8. I do these same settings for all the mark series and Triaxis as after lots of experimenting these sound the best to me, even with lots of different cabs. They seem to accord pretty well with JPs claimed settings (at least for the mids) which can be found in the video description text under this video:



Also what IR were you using? I keep coming back to the ML USA TRAD in Mikko’s Greatest Hits Pack. Amazing. YA Recto ST which come with the Axe are also great (mixing SM7, 421 and 121 cabs sound great at equal mix - try the DRK version).

Disclaimer - I am a bedroom player and haven’t tried this live but I think the logic at least holds up.

Yeah I had my setting just like in that video. I bumped up the mids on the graphic eq and in the authentic tab and am getting some great results. The way the graphic eq behaves must not be like the real amp as you say. I think that's where the difference was. It seems the pre gain tone controls don't affect the sound as much. I'm using all factory cans 861, 775, 851 and 885. So the mics are a 57, 121, 421 and a 313.
 
Yeah I had my setting just like in that video. I bumped up the mids on the graphic eq and in the authentic tab and am getting some great results. The way the graphic eq behaves must not be like the real amp as you say. I think that's where the difference was. It seems the pre gain tone controls don't affect the sound as much. I'm using all factory cans 861, 775, 851 and 885. So the mics are a 57, 121, 421 and a 313.
Glad to hear you are having more success. Out of curiosity, what was your graphic eq sliders set to when you were experiencing problems, and what are they set to now (in dB)? What are your current settings in the authentic tab?

The graphic eq in the Axe is a lot more flexible and usable. It gives you a full 12db of boost or cut on each band in a linear sweep. Where people go wrong is setting the sliders visually to match a photo of a real amp. The tapers on the pots of the real amps don’t match the Axe, and to be honest the tapers between pots on different JP2C real amps won’t match each other either due to tolerances. Need to use your ears and follow rules of thumb. The Axe Fx is reliable and repeatable.

All mark series amps work that way in the real world - amp controls set the character of the distortion and the graphic eq sets the overall sound.

I will have to take a closer look at those IRs. The IR is a MAJOR component of the sound. Like, really massive. So make sure you experiment there a lot as this will drastically shape your tone. Try rolling back to a single cab - a 57 on a recto 4x12 - and work up to mixing in more cabs as needed to fill out the sound. Start simple and work up from there.

Also check out videos and patches by @2112 on setting the mark series amps for live use. He has great tips and settings which translate brilliantly in a mix to my ears.
 
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Fortunately, I'm the dude with the 7 full PA systems worth of speakers and monitors, so we mic everything and mix the stage
volume pretty close what is out front.

Have had 2nd guitarists in the band, and I surprisingly don't have problems keeping up with their amp/cabs using two large sidefill
monitors, one on each side of the stage. I have brought out my Mission Gemini 2 some with 2nd guitarists using tube amp and cab and
can blast them across the venues if I need to with that thing! My Xitone MBritt has done well for just a 1x12 as well. My Line 6 PowerCab Plus
is decent volume/tone, but more on par with the side fill monitors on poles. I have the benefit of tweaking my tones to mix well with the band
like others have stated. I'd take the Gemini 2 with some blistering presets if I was auditioning for a band with mega stage volume.
 
This overall matches what I have seen - when one guitarist is playing a modeler (even the best one around) and the other has a cranked tube amp, the difference is very noticeable. As a guitarist and an audience member.
 
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