erockomania
Experienced
Stiller fan?HA!
I'm stilling that.
Stiller fan?HA!
I'm stilling that.
I think this needs to be extended with "and who don't adjust the knobs ever, because they're going through the FOH and trust their engineer to fix whatever is wrong." And, I've been to enough shows at clubs to know that it can be a real toss of the dice whether they'll get a FOH engineer that knows and cares, or doesn't know, care, or maybe the bartender who normally turns the knobs was busy pouring beers or chatting up that cute blond at the end of the bar hoping to get lucky.Profiling makes sense to me for people that have a bunch of great amps already and just want them to be portable.
I agree, but I never adjust my presets at a gig. Granted, we typically have FOH that are good AND care. The side things I do outside of my main band, I also play the part of FOH so I can put some EQ to fit the room/mix.I think this needs to be extended with "and who don't adjust the knobs ever, because they're going through the FOH and trust their engineer to fix whatever is wrong." And, I've been to enough shows at clubs to know that it can be a real toss of the dice whether they'll get a FOH engineer that knows and cares, or doesn't know, care, or maybe the bartender who normally turns the knobs was busy pouring beers or chatting up that cute blond at the end of the bar hoping to get lucky.
Fractal lets us send a signal to the caring engineer, or to adjust and find the right tone on the unit itself. But, we still strike out with the cute blond because the bartender has a cute puppy.
This is close to what Cliff said among the various tech notes and posts but it implies that there could never be a match, which isn't exactly true.And if you got the fact in mind that you never-ever will get a modelling amp sounding like your physical amp, because it is not possible. (Statet on different articles or posts also here in froum)
Even if you got 2 or 3 valve-amps of same type they will sound different at the same settings because of tolerance of the parts. (resistors, tubes, transformers and not at least potentiometers). So why not dialing in tone by ears with an excellent modeler and forget comparison.
That gives your the most freedom.
And vice-versa - you really got the same sound on same modeller when dialing in same settings or load the saved preset.
So you are able to reproduce your sound what is much more difficult with analog amps.
I think all modelers sound digital.both kemper and quad sound sooo digital, you cannot turn back to these after trying the 3. I know the 3 is complex, but sound wise there is no match .
But I’m not against this function in the 3 . It’s fun to put mics, push a button and have your amp in the box .
I agree with you, i found that the irs are the culprit and make « everything flat » .I think all modelers sound digital.
I have them all and they sound digital because they are digital devices.
To me, the weak point on the axe (and loadbox with amps) are the IR's
I know IR are the same than a cab miked but to my ears, definitly not.
I really prefer the sound of my axe fx miked with a Real cab.
IR have this "perfect" and static high frequencies and it s really boring in a mix.
The Axe is the best for tight sounds for sure.
But for sag and fuzzy sounds, QC and Kemper can really give a nice result.
It means some people hear things that others don't.Can someone explain what it means, in quantifiable terms, to "sound digital?" If this is something that multiple people can independently identify on different speakers, with different guitars, in different rooms, with different playing, then it should be measurable. Possibly correctable. I just don't know what the term actually means.
Can someone explain what it means, in quantifiable terms, to "sound digital?" If this is something that multiple people can independently identify on different speakers, with different guitars, in different rooms, with different playing, then it should be measurable. Possibly correctable. I just don't know what the term actually means.
That's probably what kept me off modeling for so long. Frankly, though, now that I've done it....it's really not that bad. 95% of the amps in the Fractal don't appeal to me. Of the ones that do, they're all close enough that I figured I could just pick one and tweak it. So far, I'm really happy with that approach.One big problem us guitar players have today more than ever is... OPTION ANXITY.
I've been trying to figure that out since I started in Audio.Can someone explain what it means, in quantifiable terms, to "sound digital?" If this is something that multiple people can independently identify on different speakers, with different guitars, in different rooms, with different playing, then it should be measurable. Possibly correctable. I just don't know what the term actually means.
Play with a boss distortion in a tube amp and then with the dist the head . Night and day .Can someone explain what it means, in quantifiable terms, to "sound digital?" If this is something that multiple people can independently identify on different speakers, with different guitars, in different rooms, with different playing, then it should be measurable. Possibly correctable. I just don't know what the term actually means.
I agree about the Kemper gate. The heck. They totally knocked out it out the park on that end.Sure . But when you own a head you don’t change the capacitors hm . The basic control are enough if the product is good . That’s nice to have 50 controls but how many time I find them useless in the axe … I turn the knob , turn my eyes , and never again . No for me that’s in the result where there is a lack, for the rest the kemper is gapless , the effects are nice … the clean is nice … the noise gate is probably the best gate ever . Just the distortion globally suck . That’s sad when you play rock music
This is close to what Cliff said among the various tech notes and posts but it implies that there could never be a match, which isn't exactly true.
When Fractal builds a model they start with an amp they like and think is a great example of what that amp should sound like, then make sure it's in as good of condition as it can be, as close to what the factory would have wanted it to be, based on the schematic. I suspect if the amp varies from the schematic due to a specific component having been changed, they'll make a note and adjust the model and/or create a specific version of the model that reflects that change, while creating another version of the model that's true to the schematic. The Bassman amp compared to Dweezil's version is an example of that.
The factory could create amps that sound the same if they wanted to spend the time and money to ensure their components were of the highest quality and tightest tolerances, but since most manufacturers, especially the large ones, are after as much profit as they can get, they sacrifice those things, resulting in the situation being referred to, no two amps sound the same, hence it's extremely unlikely one instance of the physical amps will sound the same as Fractal's model. But they'll be in the same ballpark sound-wise. And, if the amp was designed reasonably well, we can get the model to sound like that physical instance if we adjust the amp block correctly, but the knob settings very likely won't match, and that's what gets people griping, because they don't understand the underlying issues and they think a perfect model should match the sound of the amp when the knobs are set the same. And that's why we're told again and again to use our ears, not our eyes.
There are some amp builders who I think do make amps that are consistent from one instance of the amp model to the next. I've had two amps designed by Mark Bartel, who designed all the Tone King amps, and followed his progress into his new line of Bartel Amplifiers, and he's wonderfully picky… careful… anal… about the quality of the parts and the build of the amps, so much so he makes his own knobs, wiring stand-offs, spent a lot of time investigating new cabinet designs and makes them in-house, and for a long time hand-wired each one himself. He trained someone to do wiring exactly as he would do it but still does everything himself, and personally tests them. I suspect he's extremely close to having every amp sound the same because he won't accept less. But he's a very rare exception. I'm sure there are other builders out there who are the same way, but they're such a small minority that we can go along with the generalization that nothing will sound like a particular model of an amp.
P.S. I said I had two of the Tone King amps. I sold my Sky King because I use my Imperial Mk II 99% of the time when I need an amp. I still have a Mesa Lonestar Special also, both excellent tube amps that I built presets around on my Fractals. I'm still on my consolidation quest, so those two amps could very easily be turned into a single Bartel Starwood amp as my forever tube amp.
Yes totally agree !I agree with you, i found that the irs are the culprit and make « everything flat » .
ir sound like a sleeve. It s hard to explain it . But I think you understand . It’s so much produced , caricatural… there is a lack of dynamic, of air ? don’t know . It’s cold yes . But what I like is that the axe is tight.
I agree too , when you mic a cab it don’t sound like an ir . All the imperfections make it more real.
Don’t think that the improvements are over.
Btw The sound is already really cool, I globally enjoy playing with the axe and have zero intention changing gear. And when sometime I found it cold , I plug myself in my tube stack
I have mixed feelings about that. And, honestly, my thoughts on it are 100% of the reason I went Fractal as opposed to something else.I agree with you, i found that the irs are the culprit and make « everything flat » .
ir sound like a sleeve. It s hard to explain it . But I think you understand . It’s so much produced , caricatural… there is a lack of dynamic, of air ? don’t know . It’s cold yes . But what I like is that the axe is tight.
I agree too , when you mic a cab it don’t sound like an ir . All the imperfections make it more real.
Don’t think that the improvements are over.
Btw The sound is already really cool, I globally enjoy playing with the axe and have zero intention changing gear. And when sometime I found it cold , I plug myself in my tube stack
Doing tests with Kemper vs amps at different volume pot levels, personally I do not remember seeing substantial (a loaded word, for sure) differences that were otherwise absent.What fascinates me is the difference between static and dynamic comparisons. It’s already been said that the Kemper profiles are static, working well only at certain guitar volume and tone settings.
How was this tested if you don't mind me asking? Volume pot, tone pot, ect. Profiled and captured an amp, used the same monitoring, and saw differences compared to source when guitar is at a different volume, tone pot level, differences which weren't there otherwise?The final tone you get is never 100% dead on to the real amp, which is what is promised. Then there are differences in the way the profiles react to the guitar when you roll the tone or volume back, different enough to the real amp where I no longer feel like I'm playing a capture of my amp.