I don't "get" the VU meters...

Dpoirier

Dpoirier

Fractal Fanatic
Maybe I'm using this feature incorrectly, but I have to ask (since everyone is raving about the new VU meters)...

When I try to use the VU meters to set levels, the numbers are jumping around so much that I cannot make any use of it. I mean, I could read whatever number I want out of the 5 different numbers displayed per second. Even with constant strumming (at least, what "feels" constant to me, and sounds pretty level in my monitor), I can see a range of values covering a 3 to 4 dB difference (and +3dB is twice as loud, remember!).

What am I doing wrong? Is anyone able to make use of this?

Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic about the new feature (been waiting for this for a looooong time), but I tried a "blind test" with my monitor off, setting 5 presets "visually" to what I thought looked pretty close (given the jittery nature of the meters), and the results after turning my monitor back on were catastrophic (presets *really* twice as loud as others).

Help?
 
I have trouble, too. In my opinion, having it smooth/average over a short period of time rather than being instantaneous would be helpful, particularly if it included a peak indicator too. Both those are in a wish list thread, along with the ability to make that screen "sticky" as you move through presets, or otherwise have the ability to move through presets while keeping the meters up.
 
You are not doing anything wrong. It's showing you the peak level as the signal changes over time. Just use it to get a general idea of where your preset is peaking while strumming. I adjusted several presets so that they peaked at approximately 0db. I set patches using distorted amp tones a bit higher than patches with clean amp tones. Really helped to level out the differences between my patches.

It would be nice if Fractal added a brief "freeze" to the numbers so the highest peak would be displayed for a few seconds, or at least displayed until a higher peak is reached. I have seen other software do this and always found it useful.
 
I dont think the point is to actually read exact numbers. It is just to give you an overall idea of how loud the preset is. I checked mine today, and most of mine were about +8db. I turned them down until they bounced around the 0 db mark and saved them. We are not talking about super precision, just get it close and call it a day :)
 
I leveled all my Presets with the Meters before my gig Friday. All Presets with my AC30 and AC30 Hot were all about the same level. When I used presets with a Lonestar or a USA Lead they were all a lot louder. Back to tweaking this evening
 
Shask said:
I dont think the point is to actually read exact numbers. It is just to give you an overall idea of how loud the preset is. I checked mine today, and most of mine were about +8db. I turned them down until they bounced around the 0 db mark and saved them. We are not talking about super precision, just get it close and call it a day :)
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Are you sure about that usage model? I thought I read a statement from Cliff that at 0dB, you get digital clipping - and the idea is to steer CLEAR of 0dB... maybe I misread?

But if I'm correct, and if you aim for the highest level possible, with enough headroom, you probably want to stay below -5dB at your highest... but with the jittery VU meters, -5 dB seems to oscillate from -5 to -2 (dangerously close to that nasty digital clipping).
 
In Scott Peterson's FW17 tips thread he says that at 0db on the new VU meters it's really 20db below clipping.

Cliff did say that the new mic preamps will start clipping at 0db on their meter. So, I think that's what you are thinking of.
 
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Like many FW add-on's, there are sometimes a few revisions before its perfect. I think my sharing what works, and what doesn't, in addition to suggestions for how things can be improved, Cliff and Co can continue to perfect an otherwise fantastic product.

That is one of the really cool things about Fractal Audio, its not just brilliant people working there with ground breaking idea's, but they also really value their users and try really hard to meet everyone's needs
 
Dpoirier said:
I can see a range of values covering a 3 to 4 dB difference (and +3dB is twice as loud, remember!).
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6dB is twice the voltage, because VU has a reference to volts (right?) +3dB is twice the power if you are talking about wattages only

a range of values covering 3 or 4 dB is accurate enough for this purpose, try and get all your presets to cover the same range and you are good to go!
 
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FractalAudio said:
That thudding sound is me hitting my head against the wall.
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Please, please don't remove the feature. Eventually, the great unwashed, including moi, will perceive the great value and will understand and respect the discovery known as "fire" ;-) and will be able to put it to good use.
 
FractalAudio said:
That thudding sound is me hitting my head against the wall.
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I think the VU meters are awesome. Just used them for the first time this evening.

Did you boost the outputs at all? Because I was getting output 1 red lights occasionally on presets that didn't used to have that issue. I reduced my Global Out 1 volume. I usually run that at -6db, and reduced it to -9db so my output on the VU would be 0. Then I made a few new presets. I run other gear in the effects loop, just so you know the situation.
 
Vign5440 said:
cause when someone doesn't "get" something, treating them as inept and imbecilic is helpful.
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Yeah, Cliff is anything but "helpful"...or so says the guy who's posted 2 times on this forum, compared to the guy who spends seemingly every waking moment either on this forum responding to post, or slaving away making the best guitar processor ever better with firmware updates, and always for free too might add.

Yep... Cliff sure doesn't know how to treat his customers.... Maybe he should switch business model to that of Line6 et al, where you email support and get nothing back for weeks.

Geez.... CEO of the company and brains behind the product personally responds to users on this forum and some people insult the guy..... wow
 
I took a patch I was already familiar with, used Reaper to get an idea of what I was used to as far as a VU meter, and then used the one in the Axe-Fx to see how it compared. I don't care so much what the actual level is so long as my presents are similar level without clipping. Seems like targeting the pre-configured 0db line as the average peak gets me right where I want to be, and now I can remove yet another external step when creating/modifying presets. It also doesn't seem to jump around too much for me when playing the same full chord over and over trying to keep the same attack. Once I get in the ballpark I do my fine-tuning of individual patch leveling by ear.
 
FractalAudio said:
That thudding sound is me hitting my head against the wall.
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It's pretty simple:
-Go to Meter.
-Hit a semi hard chord.
-If it's over 0 on the meter, then dial back the 'A' button. Reverse if it's lower.
-Repeat until it's around 0.
-Hit recall and save the preset.

This seems to be the most simple thing we have, so I don't get how there is a problem. It's like tuning...keep pounding on the string, and the meter will BOUNCE.
 
FractalAudio said:
That thudding sound is me hitting my head against the wall.
Click to expand...

Excellent, that means more goodies are probably on the way! Just kidding, Cliff. :shock
Seriously, is there someone like Yek or SP or Chris K (if he resurfaces) who can "own" the technical writing that could be associated with firmware updates - something beyond just release notes?

I can't express how greatful I am for all the work FAS does to keep providing these updates and for all the great insight from the forum members. If you want a volunteer to do the technical writing, I'm up for it. Assuming that means I get in on the beta tests...:eek: Just a thought. Thanks again.
 
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