markmusicman
Experienced
Thanks again Danny - hey - I wonder if my Monster Pro 3500 power condition is a source of the hssss? Too much going on between now and the weekend to do any more hunting. Welcome to 2014 everyone!
I highly doubt that.
Thanks again Danny - hey - I wonder if my Monster Pro 3500 power condition is a source of the hssss? Too much going on between now and the weekend to do any more hunting. Welcome to 2014 everyone!
Thanks again Danny - hey - I wonder if my Monster Pro 3500 power condition is a source of the hssss? Too much going on between now and the weekend to do any more hunting. Welcome to 2014 everyone!
Mr Danzi! Excellent bit of information, I've been searching for this, have only been getting bits and pieces. Now i can go on knowing more of what i'm suppose to be doing. I have been turning down my gain for a more organic sound, but i feel it needs something to replace the loss. I've considered the compression,but need more information on regulation. I haven't even finished reading all of the post yet before i ran over here to thank you for taking the time out for some guidance on this issue. :encouragement: It's always easier if you have somewhere to start from. Thanks again.
Seriously, if you're not blown away with the guitar in AxeFX-II (with version 12.04 beta) into headphones, then it's just not for you. No shame in that, just time to move on.
Hi
@ Danny Danzi,
you recently talk about adding a good compressor,
are you referring to a compressor added after the axe fxII or putting the compressor block in the chain on the fxII preset.
if on the preset then are there any does and don'ts for what is placed before or after the compression in the chain
or is the compressor to be added at the begining of the chain ?
cheers
G \../
Hi waylander,
My mistake...we have a "good compressor" in the AxeFx II that you can use, which is the one I meant. Sorry for the confusion. I like to have mine first in line before any other drive type effects then into the amp/cab. So for example, in my go to sound in the Axe right now, the first thing in my chain is the wah because to me, a wah always sounds better as the very first effect in line instead of the last. From there, I have the AxeFx Studio compressor, then a drive pedal, then amp then cab. That completes my "going in the input of the amp" chain like I would if I used a real amp. Guitar to wah, to compressor, to drive, to amp.
Compression as a block: The compression in this example compresses the signal as it goes into the drive pedal. I don't use much drive (T808 od at 2.78 on the drive) but what happens is, with the right ratio/threshold/att/release, the level on the compressor becomes your master drive/gain control because of how it buffers through...and let me tell ya, it's sick! The sustain you get (as well as feedback) is ferocious....but you'll notice that without the compressor, you not only lose sustain, your tone starts to get "flabby" and that's what we DON'T want. Well, at least that's not what *I* want. LOL! Incidentally, my input drive on the amp I'm using in my Axe is set for 6.04 with no boost and I'm using a brit 800 mod because it gives me that 12AX7 pre amp sound. If you put the compressor AFTER the drive, you compress the drive which can give you a pump/breathe artifact that doesn't sound so good.
Physical compression AFTER the AX: You mention compression after the Axe. I wouldn't recommend that because then you'd compress your entire signal...effects and all. Though that *could* be cool as an effect, you'd be better off putting an AxeFx compressor block at the end of your signal internally as it would do the exact same thing. I'd stay away from that though unless you feel like messing around....which is one of the coolest ways to create tones. But in this situation, a compressor comping the entire Axe signal isn't something I'd want.
Physical compression BEFORE the Axe: Now, that said, you COULD use an outboard compressor going into your Axe Fx input. This to me works VERY well if you are careful. What happens here is, the outboard compressor buffers the signal going into the AxeFx sort of like the input gain in I/O settings. BUT....the compressor will send a more consistent/balanced signal to the axe. This can be really cool if you set the compressor just right...or it will bring in noise and other artifacts if you blow it. A compressor in this situation would be like lightly comping a DI signal you'd be using to re-amp with or run into VSTi guitar sims etc. I always run a little compression going to disc on everything. Whether it's a live guitar amp, a DI, or even a line going to a VSTi like Amplitube or Revalver etc. This to me makes ALL amp sims come to life in ways that make them feel more real.
Being a beta tester/developer for quite a few companies, (I'd list the names but they make us sign a confidentiality clause so that we don't get bombarded with questions and it keeps us from doing tech support work. Some let me mention them like Acme Bar Gig. I developed Shred and Head Case and have my own signature amps in both of them) one of the main complaints we get is amp sims do not behave like real amps. The reason for this in my opinion is due to the input signal not being buffered like it is in a real amp. I have the same issue with AxeFx. If you don't set it up just right, you get loads of gain yet not as much sustain unless you crank up for it to feedback.
The compression thing I mentioned (both using one going into the Axe input or the one I told you about in my block configuration) works wonders and can give you a little of that buffered signal tone/feel I'm talking about. The way I have my Axe set up right now, the loss of sustain is not so bad as long as I use that AxeFx compressor the way I told you. I haven't tried putting a compressor into the Axe input yet as the other way I explained seemed to help me...but I may entertain that idea. (The Axe Fx doesn't totally die out like VSTi's though....it just fades a little.) It can also be done with a physical pedal going in the Axe input using like a Tube Screamer or an OD or even a Boss Compressor Sustainer. I don't use any of those the way you would in an amp in this example though. Let me explain...
If we use a tube screamer (a real, physical, puke green pedal)....from our guitar, into the in of the TS, out of the TS then into the input of the AxeFx and set the gain of the TS all the way down, tone set for up the middle and the output all the way up until it hisses then back it down until it stops, you will notice a major difference in how the AxeFx behaves and feels. We've buffered the signal before it hits anything. This is where amp sims sort of lose the purists that bash the living crap out of them. If we buffer the signal a bit, the feel comes back. We just have to treat it delicately.
So if you use a pedal first, you don't want to use much or it will degrade the signal. But if you hit it just right, it can really make a difference in how things behave. When I use VSTi amp sims, I ALWAYS put either a pedal or a compressor in my physical chain. Meaning, guitar to pedal or compressor, then into whatever I'm using as an amp sim. Sometimes the compressor works the best, other times a pedal with a slight boost (just try not to use the gain knob on the pedal) will fix you right up.
But, keep in mind, this is for running things physically into the Axe. If you try the internal compressor thing I mentioned, that's all inside the Axe already and will make a nice difference to where you may not need to add anything before the Axe input. You just have to experiment and see what works for you. In a nutshell, this is what you should notice....
If you use the compressor internally (one of the comps in the Axe) or something going into the input of the Axe, your notes should never die out as long as you are shaking a string. (of course excessive gating can cut notes off too, so check that as well) This should be consistent even at low volume...so sound should always be present. You shouldn't have to jack up mounds of gain to achieve sustain. These little tricks give you the sustain...meaning, note holds lasting a bit longer no matter what volume. Sometimes we want to feedback and have a note hold....other times, it's nice to shake the string and have the note hold instead without the note totally dying on us, know what I mean?
I hope you can understand this and I didn't lose you. If I did, let me know and I'll try to do a better job explaining it. I can really notice this on my lead patches. The rhythm patches I can hear it as well, but it's not quite as apparent. I may have a slower night tonight client wise. If I do, I'll post up a clip explaining the before and after difference. If not tonight, I'll do it sometime this weekend so you and others can see what I'm talking about.
Hi Danny,
Your posts in this thread have been very helpful to me, I really appreciate it!
I listened to some of your music and im very impressed with your playing, as well as the killer tones. I grew up with 80s style tones and its what I tend to gravitate towards.
I did want to get your take on the compressor settings you mentioned earlier. You talked about the right "ratio/threshold/att/rel" settings. Could you give me some examples of some good places to start with those settings?
I also use the brit 800 mod as my main rhythm preset. Would you use near the same compressor settings with your lead preset, that you use for your rhythm?
Thanks for all of your help.
Lawson
Hi Lawson,
Thanks for the kind words....and you're welcome. Yeah, something about that 80's sound that just made me want to be a guitar player. It started with Eddie and just escalated for me from there. The more processed tones really got me excited, that's for sure.
On the compressor settings, it's a feel thing really and it will also depend on what pup output you have as well as what other effects you may be using in your Axe. For example, if you have hotter pups than me, a compressor setting that I would use might not work for you. If you use a different drive stomp than me, the compressor setting is going to react differently. So it's always going to be a feel thing based on what you're going for as well as what you're using.
A decent place to start would be a 4:1 ratio. This is one of the most common ratio settings for rock guitar due to the compressor threshold reacting quite well with high gain guitars. The ratio works off of the threshold though and the threshold is something you will have to set to taste. The threshold is how much of the compressor you really want to hear. As you adjust this more, it removes gain from the sound. The more gain it removes, the more distortion is actually removed and it can also bring on weird artifacts that you don't want. So you really don't want to slam this setting. I'd say you want to set it so you are removing anywhere from -2dB to about -5dB of gain when you look at the gain bar indicator on the compressor. You'll see it move as you play notes and chords. I can't tell you what the threshold number will be....you need to set it until you hear the right amount being removed and tightened up.
Your attack time is of course how fast the compressor is going to clamp down and remove gain. Anywhere from 3ms to 6 ms should work...but again, it's a taste thing. You may want your compressor to clamp down faster...or you may want it to ease its way into the sound and you may want a longer attack time. Your attack time also controls how the compressor sounds. Meaning, sometimes you want to let it breathe more and be longer to get the full sound. Having it clamp down too hard can literally take your percussive attack away from your tone...and you don't want that. So this is why this stuff is so "to taste" and more of a feel thing like I mentioned.
The release is when the comp releases. I know, sounds too easy but that's the truth. The shorter your release, the more of a sustain sound you can get. For example, when we process snare drums to have more crack in them, we'll use a longer attack and a short release to give the snare more crack due to the longer attack, and more sustain due to the shorter release. You want a happy medium for guitar and you'll hear why when you experiment a bit. Again, this is a taste thing. You can set it from 250 to 450 ms for a decent starting point. Just experiment and see the effects it has on the compressor. Remember, and this is important....
Some of these things will not be heard as easily. To hear what the compressor is doing to the extreme, the threshold and the ratio (use at least a 4:1 ratio) need to be involved. The more threshold you use (meaning the larger negative number) the more you hear the compressor. So if you are testing things out, jack the threshold up pretty high while experimenting so you can hear what these functions do to your sound...then back the threshold down. You'll get a feel for it with a little experimenting.
On a lead sound, I'll most likely use the same compression sound with more output on the compressor level for more sustain. Most of my rhythm patches are at like 6.0 on the comp level, but my lead patches I turn up to like 8.0 or 10.o depending on what I'm looking for. I also use my expression pedal to control the amount of gain in my sound via the compression level value, so even in times where I may jack that to insanity (like 20.0) it may only be for a sustained note and then I'll use my pedal and back it down. It's always different. I was hoping to share a few sounds to show you what I mean, but I had a client beg me to bail them out. If it's not too late when I get done, maybe I'll show ya what I mean. If not, like I said before...sometime over the weekend.
-Danny