I constantly feel like I'm guessing with my Axe FX II

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really cool info Danny....compression is an effect ive loved in the past but don't really understand enough to dial in properly on the Axe. (part of that is laziness to research it) my Diamond Comp on my analog pedal board was one of my fav pedals i've ever bought. transparent but made everything just more "there", if that makes sense. i've missed that in the Axe, looking forward to trying your methods.
 
Another +1 thanks Danny... I always like a bit of compression discussion towards guitar use. I still get confused by it at times and I approach it from using various comp pedals into amps for the most part (only started using digital with the Axe II a couple of years back).

You're welcome Hotplate. Ah don't let it (or anything else) confuse you. Always ask questions whenever you can. There are always Angels amongst us that will chime in and help you out. :) One thing I learned...the only stupid or silly question is the one that doesn't get asked. There are a few forums out there that may be intimidating with know-it-alls...but for the most part, you'll always find someone that is willing to help you out when you're in need.....even in this somewhat vicious world we live in today. :)

Thanks for the video, and all your other insights in this thread Danny. You seem to know what you're talking about, and you're able to convey that without it becoming confusing. Especially the stuff on compression is pretty enlightning as I never really grasped how to work them or listen to what they do exactly. I remember from the last gig I played, I asked the FOH sound engineer what he adjusted to the sound comgin from my Axe and he said "well, I boosted the low frequencies a little bit and applied some light compression, that's all". The low frequencies I knew how to fix, but compression has remained a slight mystery ever since.

Watching your video I figured out what to listen for, how attack and release work, and put it in practice on my own presets. Ended up with the pedal 2 type, sustain around 2-2.5, attack at 15 ms (quite long maybe, but I don't like the initial attack to be squished already), release around 350 ms, no emph, level at 0. I tried boosting the level, but the sound I have without a compressor already makes me happy in the pants without a further need to push the amp block; I just wanted a little more sustain without really altering my current sounds. I'll need to test it in a band setting still, but it certainly sounds promising on its own (it appears to work for both my clean and gainy sounds). So yeah, thanks. :)

No problem swervwdriver, glad it helped you out. Well, I like to think I know what I'm talking about. LOL! I mean, I'm sure some guru could come on here and start bashing every thing I say with some sort of science that would show how I might be wrong. I'm cool with that really. When I share something, I'm only sharing my own personal experience as to how or why something worked for me. It may not work for anyone else but me...but it's here for the taking if by chance it helps someone. :) I've been doing this a pretty long time so there are a few things I know about. However, just like we can read "eggs aren't good for you" one year and in 20 years, "oops..sorry we said that...eggs are good for you as a new study as shown" (or insert whatever else you want there lol) the same can be said in this field.

Quite a few analog methods would not be treated or handled the same way we would in digital and vice versa. The effects they are making today treat things differently. Sometimes in such a way, it can make someone that knows what they are talking about look like an old fool based on old technology. For example, the old school purist guys will use compressors to get crack out of snare drums and will sit there screwing with a compressor for 15 minutes setting it just right. The 2014 engineer will fire up a plugin by SPL called Transient Designer and control attack/crack/resonance with 2 knobs in 10 seconds. LOL! The old school guy not aware of this is going to fight tooth and nail that his API 2500 compressor is the tool of the Gods for that....and though the API is one of my fave compressors of all time, I'll take an SPL Transient Designer over it to bring out crack in a snare or suppress the attack on a bass any day. Of course with the SPL you'd still need to use a compressor along with it for "compression" but you'd not need to use the compressor as a tool to bring out crack in a snare. So new technology is something else.

The same with that side chaining compression stuff. A guy like me, will never teach you to use that until later in your recording classes. The reason being....for years, we have done without side-chaining and have achieved fantastic recordings. Before you can walk, you need to crawl. Side-chaining is a cool technique...but there are side-effects that can come from it too. Quick example...

Some guys like to use it so that a kick drum and a bass are audibly heard. What actually happens is...there is a trade-off between the two. You hear the kick at times, you hear the bass as more dominant other times. To me, I want consistency ALWAYS. To do that, if we remove frequency masking within two instruments, there is no need to have them take turns. However, the take turns thing is kinda cool for dance music or house music. But my point there...controlling frequencies as well as proper compression are the better way to handle things like this other than putting a band-aid on something and not getting the full potential out of it. But that's just me. Now on the other side of the coin, side-chain compression works really well with rhythm guitars and lead guitars.

This way the rhythm guitars drop down a bit while the lead plays...when the lead is done, the rhythm guitars come right back up to where they were. The compressor reacts off of the lead guitar. So when the lead comes in, the rhythms take a back seat...see...a trade off. How would *I* do this? Simple...automation....this way there are no possible artifacts. :)

Yeah I still haven't had a chance to try that pedal compressor in the Axe yet. I've been trying to set things up for my live rig the past few days. So far this thing sounds even better live through my cabs than it does for my studio use. I'm VERY impressed! :) Anyway...thanks man, much appreciated.
 
really cool info Danny....compression is an effect ive loved in the past but don't really understand enough to dial in properly on the Axe. (part of that is laziness to research it) my Diamond Comp on my analog pedal board was one of my fav pedals i've ever bought. transparent but made everything just more "there", if that makes sense. i've missed that in the Axe, looking forward to trying your methods.

Thanks jlynn! Yeah compression isn't an easy one, that's for sure. One thing about it that I wish wasn't the case is....it's usually working the best when you DON'T hear it. This is really tough for people that are just learning about it. I can't tell you how many of my students say "dude, how the heck can I tell something is working right if I can't hear it?!" LOL!

The only way I can explain that is....when you listen to a song where you're playing your guitar...without any compression, your sound is going to lash out at times, other times it sort of sounds buried. When you add a compressor and have it set up right, the compressor will take your lowest point and raise it up....it will take your loudest point, and lower it so that both your lowest and loudest sounds are more consistent. So the guitar sound will not lash out nor will it seem to get buried in the mix.

When you lash out, there are transient spikes in the wave form. The compressor will curb them. The lower volume parts...where the wave form may look a bit smaller, will come up...so the wave form will thicken. That's really the best way I can explain it to you. Anytime you feel the need to keep raising and lowering a fader when you mix...one of two things is happening or both.

1. You need the right amount of compression on your instruments. Every instrument you record should have some sort of compression on it even if it's super light just policing that the instrument never lashes out. There are times of course, where you just may not feel you need any compression at all. It depends on the player as well as the sound really.

2. Frequency masking: when two instruments are sharing "like" frequencies, they cancel each other out. Ever have a mix going on and you can't hear your bass guitar, so you raise the bass fader...then you can't hear your kick drum, so you raise the kick drum fader...and this keeps on going on until you say "ok, what the heck is going on here?!" 9 out of 10 times, you've experienced frequency masking...and man, it sucks! Even guitar sounds can suffer from this because guitar players seem to think that they need all this extra bass in their tone. In reality, they don't. As soon as you remove that low end that shouldn't be there, a guitar tone wakes right up and you never lose it in a mix.

When you change the frequency a bass guitar and kick drum are sharing, the two instruments instantly start working as a team. So between freq masking and lack of compression, these two things can really drive a person crazy when they mix. for amateurs, the hardest thing is deciding which one you're hearing. Uggh....I so don't miss those days! Hahaha! :)

Subscribed for more videos.. great job Danny.

Thanks Clickonce....I'll try to post up a few more things when I can. :)

Thanks again everyone.
 
Would love your preset and or cab. If its a tone match would still love it! thanks for a great vid, one of best ones Ive seen and one of best tones Ive heard along with Mark Days in a long time.
 
danny, what would your settings be for lower gain/crunch tones? pretty much the same?

Not sure they would be... that much compression driving the amp would negate the ability to back off the guitar a bit (unless the comp settings are so low that they'd be doing next to nothing anyway that is :))
 
Would love your preset and or cab. If its a tone match would still love it! thanks for a great vid, one of best ones Ive seen and one of best tones Ive heard along with Mark Days in a long time.

Thanks symphx! Got your pm as well....I'll see what I can do. I'm still working on things here at the moment. I plan on releasing some patches as soon as I get everything the way I want it. :) Now I'm heavily diving into scenes and X/Y stuff. I used my AxeFx live for the first time Saturday night. My live tones are a bit different than my studio tones....but one common problem is the patch change glitching and lack of spillover. I notice it's lots better when using scenes...so I'm trying to build a new sound stage using them. I've also been tweaking tones to fine tune things a bit....so once I get everything in good shape, I'll share a few things. The cab was a tone match originally....but once I saved it as a cab, it gave me more power. Speaking of that...if I do a full system back-up, does it do cabs too, or do we always have to save them separately? Anyone know?

danny, what would your settings be for lower gain/crunch tones? pretty much the same?

jl: I'd take the patch I have and either lower the distortion drive or lower the output on the compressor and you should be good to go. My first choice in my particular sound would be to control the compressor output. I don't know why that hasn't been added as a possible control option for our expression pedals, but that's where I could cut down. You'll notice if you lower that to like -5dB or lower, you get a nice crunch that isn't too off the hook. Since I can't use my expression pedal to control that, I use it to control the drive level on the distortion pedal. It works quite well, but I'd much prefer controlling the output on the comp. *begs...please Cliff...is it a possibility to get control access via expression pedal to the output level on the compressor?*
 
I am so glad I saw this thread.
Thank you Danny! As a noob in both guitar playing and recording, thanks for all these valuable info you provided.
They are very helpful and to the points. Exactly what a noob needed.
Thank you!
 
Not sure they would be... that much compression driving the amp would negate the ability to back off the guitar a bit (unless the comp settings are so low that they'd be doing next to nothing anyway that is :))

yeah i get that, and i know we don't really have a comp effect like this in the Axe, buy my Diamond Comp pedal made EVERYTHING better...just more of it. it shined on clean, crunch, gain...incredible pedal.

was hoping to gain the same type of effect somehow in the axe with what's there right now.
 
I am so glad I saw this thread.
Thank you Danny! As a noob in both guitar playing and recording, thanks for all these valuable info you provided.
They are very helpful and to the points. Exactly what a noob needed.
Thank you!

Ah you're welcome Andy...glad it was helpful to you. :) Nothing wrong with being a noob...we all have to start somewhere. That's part of why I try to help out on forums. I remember when I'd ask questions to people I held in high regard, I'd always get generic answers. No one ever sat me down and helped me in depth. So I made a deal with God one day and said "God, if I ever get to a point where people respect my opinion or like what I do, I promise to try and help them the way I wish someone would have helped me." (or at least set me in the right direction)

Trust me Andy, I know how intense some of this stuff can be. The more technology advances, the more this stuff can actually become a double edged sword. For example...

1. The more advanced, the more options we get, the harder it can be to learn this stuff or make up your mind. Who has hours and hours to play around with this stuff when working a job and having a family?

2. The more we GIVE away, the less people learn. It would be too easy to give patches away to people (not just my patches....anyone's patches) but to me, there's a certain something we lose when we get patches that are already made. It's sort of like me sharing a complete mix template with someone that has hired me to mix their album. They hired me to mix their album, not share my template. The audio files are theirs....the work *I* do, is mine. This is one of the cool things that happened to me when people I begged to help me decided to give me a generic response. It forced me to learn on my own...and learn I did...even if the stuff I've learned only works for me, ya know? So dive right in brother...half the fun with this stuff is learning and experimenting. Putting in the time is usually the hardest part. :)
 
Ah you're welcome Andy...glad it was helpful to you. :) Nothing wrong with being a noob...we all have to start somewhere. That's part of why I try to help out on forums. I remember when I'd ask questions to people I held in high regard, I'd always get generic answers. No one ever sat me down and helped me in depth. So I made a deal with God one day and said "God, if I ever get to a point where people respect my opinion or like what I do, I promise to try and help them the way I wish someone would have helped me." (or at least set me in the right direction)

Trust me Andy, I know how intense some of this stuff can be. The more technology advances, the more this stuff can actually become a double edged sword. For example...

1. The more advanced, the more options we get, the harder it can be to learn this stuff or make up your mind. Who has hours and hours to play around with this stuff when working a job and having a family?

2. The more we GIVE away, the less people learn. It would be too easy to give patches away to people (not just my patches....anyone's patches) but to me, there's a certain something we lose when we get patches that are already made. It's sort of like me sharing a complete mix template with someone that has hired me to mix their album. They hired me to mix their album, not share my template. The audio files are theirs....the work *I* do, is mine. This is one of the cool things that happened to me when people I begged to help me decided to give me a generic response. It forced me to learn on my own...and learn I did...even if the stuff I've learned only works for me, ya know? So dive right in brother...half the fun with this stuff is learning and experimenting. Putting in the time is usually the hardest part. :)

Hi Danny,

I just wanted to say, you're such a refreshment here on the forum. I mean, a lot of guys here are willing to help and they actually helped me a lot but your way to explain things is special. After reading a lot of theory about compression I couldn't start anywhere until you have explained what do you do in your patches. Now, I'm not trying to copy your way but finally I realised what to listen for, how to approach it and at the end, I use my ears (it's an often standard phrase which helps only if someone explained what to do first and where to start from, like you did). You for sure have many talents, one of them is teaching. So, thanks a lot! Thank you for your time, as I can see we all appreciate it very much.

Now I have to go through all of your posts...:)

Best regards from Switzerland

Ivo
 
Hi Danny,

I just wanted to say, you're such a refreshment here on the forum. I mean, a lot of guys here are willing to help and they actually helped me a lot but your way to explain things is special. After reading a lot of theory about compression I couldn't start anywhere until you have explained what do you do in your patches. Now, I'm not trying to copy your way but finally I realised what to listen for, how to approach it and at the end, I use my ears (it's an often standard phrase which helps only if someone explained what to do first and where to start from, like you did). You for sure have many talents, one of them is teaching. So, thanks a lot! Thank you for your time, as I can see we all appreciate it very much.

Now I have to go through all of your posts...:)

Best regards from Switzerland

Ivo

Hi Ivo,

Greetings from a soon VERY snowy (but never as snowy as Switzerland) New Jersey, USA. :) Thank you for the kind words and you're quite welcome. Yeah you're right, there are quite a few guys on here that are very helpful. I've had a few mail me and pm me offering to help me on things I hadn't even asked about as well as things I talked about briefly. I really like this forum and appreciate the people that are on it. At the end of the day, we're all in this world together. It's best when we all make the best of it as a team really.

I'm glad the compression stuff helped you out and thanks for the teaching compliment. :) I try my best to reach out to people and explain it in a language they can understand. If we don't, it all just becomes technical jargon that can deter someone from wanting to learn more....or it's intimidation for the sake of sounding important. The last I checked, anyone talking/teaching like Ben Stein was boring and a total turn-off. LOL! Anyway, thanks so much again Ivo.
 
Danny, how do you deal with all the noise from the jacked up compressor?

Hi Lou,

I actually don't get much. Did you happen to check out the video I posted? I don't know how people gauge noise, but I can tell you how *I* do it....and doing it my way, there is no noise that is bothersome to me.

Some guys judge it by leaving their volume knob wide open and they gate it until they play and pass signal through. I come from a time where we used 900 pedals, had to tap dance and also had to jump on our volume knobs so fast, you couldn't tell we had any noise. LOL! So for guys like me, there is no noise when my volume knob is not open. When I open up my volume, I play, so you can't really hear any noise or hiss other than if I'm playing super heavy and back my volume knob down a bit...then you can hear a little something, but nothing that is over the top. Like for example, I'm sure you've heard early Eddie Van Halen stuff. When he backs his volume knob down, he has hiss in the back. I don't even get that....so the compressor is really not adding much noise to my particular sound at all.

As a matter of fact, I can get away with 99% on the gate, but I have since (as of a few nights ago) bumped it to 90% and am completely happy with it there. I notice in some of the sounds people have shared that they totally gate everything....to me, that's way too restricted. So I leave things as natural as I can where the noise is tolerable. But I honestly don't think it's overbearing. If is it, there may be something else contributing to the noise. But for the way I'm doing things over here, it's not noisy at all. :)
 
The axe is still giving me headaches - my issue with the unit is - IMO it's just really really easy to make the unit sound bad. Effects included. Dialing in my Strymon timeline took about two seconds to get a lush, warm sounding delay.

Turning my fender twin up with everything set on 5 sounds bright and full. Loading up the axe fx II's twin and pairing it with a doubleverb mix (or ultra-res, or stereo mix of multiple IR's) sounds thin. All of my cleans sound weak and have no life

IDK i'm frustrated with this thing and have been ever since i've bought it. The upside is there, but no new user should underestimate the sheer headache of trying to make this black box sound good. I've spent more hours researching and trying to figure this damn thing out than I have actually playing. Again, the upside is what keeps me going- I'd love to find the sound of my tube amps so I could roll to a gig with just the axe. But maybe I should have bought a kemper, because the axe is as far from plug and play as anything I've ever experienced.

With that said, I bought an Axe, poweramp, MFC, expression pedals, and now have an NL212 on the way. maybe the whole cab thing will help out, but i'm so annoyed haha. Give me a plexi.....ugh

PS- Danny, thanks for all your posts and help in this thread. I'm really trying to nail down full rhythm and bluesy leads, so I haven't found the whole compressor thing applicable to me
 
My Guitar teacher is an all Tube Mesa Boogie Freak since he started playing about more than 25 years ago. he was Never into digital modelers, cause they all sounded thin and with no Dynamics for ihm.

about 6 weeks ago i took my axe-Rig (axe-FX 2, db Technologies Flexsys FM12) to his rehearsal room, and played my HBE Preset with the 1960 TV Mix IR.
He was really shocked about the Sound, the Dynamic and the Volume achieved by One!!!! Little 12" active wedge.

And just for fun, i dialed a Mesa Boogie Recto in orange Vintage Mode, did the Same Settings he got on his real Mesa Boogies that were standing on their 4x12 Cabs 3 m next to the Wedge and gave ihm my Guitar Plug....

He plugged in his 1964 pre-CBS fender and played over 20 Minutes. With every Minute of playing his smile increased...he did all the "Test-Tricks" like Volume, tone back, just to get stunned like a Little child. Pinch harmonic jazz chords, Funk Licks...no Reverb, no FX....just the (really Butt Ugly coloured) Strat, his Fingers into the dry axe-Boogie-Preset, that took me less than 4 Minutes to Set up in axe-Edit.

This was Firmware 12.02, no ULTRA IRs (which I loooooove, btw) and no expanded poweramp features like FW 13......
So, I' don't really like Boogies (i must say that i just know too Little about 'em and how to Set them up properly) but if I can dial
Into a Sound, where a absolute guitar pro' ( www.guitardoctom.) is remaining absolutely speachless.....and this with a € 500,- Wedge (no supidupi CLR, q12 or RCF.....)

....then... I think, you are doing Something completely wrong. Sorry. i Hope, you don't feel offensed, which was not my Intention.
Not all People Are Born to Play the Same Gear.....but maybe the Kemper can make it for you (but i'm Not so sure....Test a few Profiles by yourself before buying it to get sure...my Suggestion....

cheers,
Andy
 
This might be the right time and place to state the obvious: "Maybe it's just not for you".

Because I can take a new Axe-Fx, start with a clean preset, add nothing else than Amp and Cab and have it sound great, in 20 seconds.
Basic adjustments only.
Depending on the monitoring / amplification of course.

As advised before: get together with an experienced Axe-Fx user. You need a reference point.
 
This might be the right time and place to state the obvious: "Maybe it's just not for you".

Because I can take a new Axe-Fx, start with a clean preset, add nothing else than Amp and Cab and have it sound great, in 20 seconds.
Basic adjustments only.
Depending on the monitoring / amplification of course.

As advised before: get together with an experienced Axe-Fx user. You need a reference point.

bg: yek may just be onto something with his post above. Although I sincerely don't think the axe isn't for you just yet, I would definitely talk to someone who can really dial it in. OR....post up a sound of yours without using the Axe and see if someone here can get close.

I've been messing with my Axe since I got it. There's just about nothing I can't do with it. However, it takes time to REALLY hone in on specifics. As yek says, he can dial something in at around 20 seconds....I can say the same. BUT...if it's something I need to be totally thorough about, it's going to take me some time depending on how in depth I want to be.

If I can give a word of advice? I don't think any of us should be comparing our Axe's to real amps unless you can literally model the real amp correctly. Don't go by the models inside...they won't work for everyone. Some to me sound close, others sound pretty far off when *I* have plugged into the real amps.

I've stated many times before that I have been a die-hard Digitech 2101 user since they came out. I was able to cop my favorite tones in my 2101 to the "T" to where they actually sound better in the Axe. With the new firmware allowing me more cool options over the power amp section, this thing is screaming. So my advice in a nutshell is this....create something new if possible and if you really miss your amp sound, follow the instructions and model it. Then see how you fair. I had 0 problems dialing in my 2101 tones. When I compare my Axe 2101 cop vs the original....there's nothing in the original that wins me over for a second. I have so much more power in the Axe, after copping the tone I modded it to perfection. No one else may like the tone, but I sure love it. :)

But again, for certain things....it's going to take time and experimentation. This is an easy unit to use...but it has unlimited possibilities that can be overwhelming and I truly feel your pain. Another suggestion to try bg (I'd really love to see you make use of everything you purchased brother, from the heart) is to find a great cab sim, dial in the sound and then don't turn it off when going through a cab. Many of the guys on the forum here (including Cliff) have mentioned that the Axe is best when turning off cab emulation and power amp emulation when going into a cab.

My goofy butt has found this to be the furthest from the truth in my personal situation. I leave all the emulations on at all times and am totally happy with my tone going into my 25 watt Greenback cabs. Now, the sound I use in the studio has a little less bottom end....so I had to tweak my live tone that goes through my cabs a bit differently. I bring in a filter, raise the low end at like 100 Hz by 2dB and my live tone is perfect. I also drop the gain lower because my Greenbacks saturate a little bit...so I can use less pre-amp gain.

But maybe we gotta think a little outside the box with your situation? I tried those wedges and have to admit, though they are cool....I STILL prefer my Greenback cabs. What I like about my Greenbacks is....the sound they give me enhances the Axe, so tweaking it up to sound good in my cabs really brought it to life. Due to the Greenies saturating a little bit, it also adds a little sustain and the darned thing always seems to feedback in key. It's the weirdest thing! I've only used my Axe for 1 gig so far, but men, it was one of the best gigs of my life and EVERYONE complimented me on my new sound. My soundman is a stickler for guitar tones. He told me "I never thought you'd outdo your other tone...wow..impressive...this obliterates it."

So maybe (as much as it may bother you to do this) you may need just a little more patience and some assistance from the fine people on the forum here. What if you could model your amps yourself? That's what I did and that's what made the difference for me. But even there, if I had to take the approach that yek mentioned about just creating a quick sound with an amp and a cab, I too would land a good one that could be useable on a recording or live in 20 seconds. I don't think the Kemper will help you. I had 2 of those here in my studio to record. They were pretty cool and to me, felt more like a real amp. BUT...and this is important....the sounds did nothing for me and man...those things are UG-LY! It was cool for certain things...but I'll take a finely tuned Axe over that any day brother. We just gotta get you straightened out and I think you'll love it.

Some people are tweakers and can keep at it forever. Others need to dial in a sound and move on. I know how difficult this can be. I've been dreading switching over from my 2101's to something new for years. Mt Axe (though amazing) still can't do some of the stuff I could do with my 2101. So I'm either having to compensate, settle for a little less in some areas, and just do the best I can. But the sound I've achieved smokes the 2101 as well as all the additional options I have. I'm just missing little things that took me forever to create in the 2101....I don't have the time I once had, and I'm still learning the new system. I just figured out the Steve Stevens ray gun sound on the Axe...so that's a major breakthrough for me! I came up with the coolest sound on my 2101 for that and figured the Axe wouldn't be able to cut it...but it does. You just gotta be patient with it and experiment. If you don't have the time to get it how you like it, maybe someone can help for a small fee or something. Tough situation no matter what....but it's sort of like practicing. Sometimes if we practice the wrong stuff...we don't get better. Maybe the info you've researched isn't stuff that may apply to the sound you're looking for and maybe you're going about it the wrong way? I'm just taking guesses...not saying that's the case or not. Anyway....I sincerely hope you do find a light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck brother...and you're welcome on the compression stuff. I mutilated your thread with lots of stuff hoping to help people out. I meant to say I'm sorry for that, but sincerely hope some of it helped. :)
 
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I can also get something very useable within seconds. I'm definitely NOT a tweaker or a majordomo Axe Fx scientist. The sounds are good for me and maybe not for someone else. But then again I come from the premise that so much of the sound is in my hands anyway.

If it's not for you it's not for you. I'd stop trying to beat a dead horse. Sell it! I have no dog in this fight. I am definitely not one who tries to get everyone else to use the Axe Fx or LOVE it. I figure it's my secret weapon. If everyone had one it wouldn't be my secret weapon!
 
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